muhammad ali interview on frazier-foreman

Of course Ali as much as possible wants to make light of the first guy to beat him getting hammered like that. But most of what he says is right on the money. Many of George's punches are wide and amateurish, and there's little in the way of set-up. It's also true that Joe was foolish to continue to walk right into him when hurt. In the rematch, a 10 lbs heavier and three years older Frazier showed that he could circle Foreman quite well when he wanted to. He should have done just that after the first knock-down.

 

And he circled and moved surprisingly well in his previous match against Stander, who thought he might be able to win simply by advancing on Joe. Ron didn't have Foreman's power, height or reach, but he caused Smoke to display the most lateral mobility Frazier had demonstrated since Chuvalo. However, Joe was stunned so badly by George that he wasn't able to adjust as needed.

Even at nearly 230 pounds and pushing 38 years of age, Smoke was able to sidestep quickly on the physically powerful Floyd Cummings, although he was no longer able to move around the ring like he did in Foreman II. Put Joe at his peak closer to a weight of 200 pounds, and he might have both the resilience and mobility to weather the early storm and drown the big guy late.

 

What was somewhat overlooked there was George's cheen.

Joe caught him with a few shots that might have put a lot of fighters down.

They had little or no effect on George.

For this reason, I don't think Frazier could ever have prevailed over George.

 

Depends on whether or not he could survive into the later rounds. In Manila, he had Ali wondering whether or not Muhammad could survive during the tenth, and his late round power was formidable in the FOTC. IF Ali could put George down and out in eight, then it seems certain peak Smoke could have done it to Foreman in the championship rounds.

 

The problem regarding Frazier in any Foreman fight is George shoving and muscling him around in there. He pushes Joe to where he wants him to be. ! of his tactics was to hit Joe's shoulder to twist his torso. And even lateral movement only works to a certain degree against a Foreman anyway for Joe. Foreman is going to continue to throw hard shots and nobody ever had to tell him to throw follow ups once he got a guy hurt. Just playing the numbers game, Foreman throwing 40 punches a round means something significant is going to land. Then, it's uppercut time once Frazier is hurt or stung.

To me, it's a match similar to a mouse in a cage with a boa constrictor. Once the boa decides it's hungry and wants to eat, those tricks that kept the mouse alive will not work.

 

Joe would only have been able to keep up the circling for a limited amount of time. He would find it extremely hard not to revert to his normal aggressive come forward style.

 

Nah, after the first knock-down he seemed clear enough to be expected to make the smart decision. He wasn't out on his feet or anything. I think it was like Ali said, he was just too proud and confident to retreat and then after the second one he was too badly hurt to do anything useful.

 

Yeah, but circle to see the round out and clear his head. Then when he clears up, he can try and take it to Foreman again. I'm not saying that he would succeed, just that he would give himself a better chance.

 

Very true,Bokaj. Nobody ever told Joe about discretion being the better part of valour !!

 

I find it somewhat funny to hear Ali criticising Foreman's supposed lack of technique...his wildness, etc., ...those shortcomings sure didn't stop George from wreaking pure havoc on Frazier, Norton and Lyle. True enough though, George's technique and discipline seemed to improve in that rematch with Frazier. Foreman's technical weaknesses only surfaced when faced with Ali and of course, Jimmy Young.

 

That wasn't even Foreman against Young, look how listless & lethargic from weight-draining he was.

 

Before the Foreman fight, Ali went on and on about that Foreman was amateurish and there to be taken advantage of for someone with the right skill and mental fortitude. I think that in part was about psyching himself up for a task even many of his own people didn't truly believe he could pull off, and afterwards I think he was actually a bit surpised himself about how right he was. He was contemptous of Foreman's crudeness even after the fight, which was rare for Ali.

 

That's ok...rematch them in a comfortably air conditioned arena any time after that...and Young would have neatly outpointed him just the same. By the way, I've never seen a stronger, more physically powerful fighter in the ring than the Foreman on that night with Young...weight drained or no. My man Young just had George's number...a rematch would have just been another loss for Foreman.

 

Based on Joe's history, that first knockdown could have been a wake-up call, like the early opening round right uppercut from Ramos, or the shot which Stander knocked Smoke backwards with in the starting stanza. Frazier tended to come on stronger in those situations, and he survived most of round two in Bonavena I just a single knockdown away from defeat. Ringo should have gotten him out of there. Joe didn't last by running or clinching, but by getting in close and smothering Oscar inside, a template he probably reasonably expected to duplicate with George once he got up from the first KD. If he was in 1969-1971 condition, he might have been able to recover sufficiently to adapt between rounds one and two, but he wasn't in that kind of shape, and knockdown number two proved too much to shake off the effects of.

It's entirely possible that Frazier would have needed a second match entirely to have a chance at defeating Foreman, that much like Louis, he couldn't alter his approach that radically in mid match, but had to plan a totally different strategy in advance, like the Bomber did for Schmeling II and Godoy II.