Of the 61 fights that Clay/Ali fought 29 wouldn't be allowed nowadays as heavyweight because one or both opponents were below 200 lbs at the time of the bout. In other words they would run as cruiser fights (or below) and Klitschko wouldn't be allowed to stage them. Of the remaining 32 fights Ali lost 4. Of the remaining 28 fights Ali fought 10x against opponents LIGHTER than Eddie Chambers (Wladimir Klitschko's lightest opponent), thus today's fans would shout "they should move down to cruiserweight" and "it's proof of how the division sucks" or what a mismatch it is. Of the remaining 18 fights 2 wouldn't be allowed for medical reasons: Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye and Cleveland Williams was gunshot. Another proof of the "dire state of the division" Of the remaining 16 fights Ali couldn't KO his opponents in 10 fights (within 12 rounds) thus they would be "proof of how featherfisty Wlad is with a KO'ratio of 38%" and that "Marciano would KO this bum Wlad in 1 round" Of the remaining 6 fights 1 was a bum ·Charley Powell (25-11) which would be another proof for the "worst era in heavyweight boxing" Of the remaining 5 fights 2 were against guys coming off a loss (Ron Lyle, Alvin Lewis) and fans would accuse Wlad of "cherry-picking". Of the remaining 3 fights 2 were against a cruiser-bum beater (Sonny Liston) and fans would speculate about how the mob or Wladimir's radical Muslim friends have illegally influenced the outcome, since both endings (shoulder injury, phantom punch) were highly suspicious. Fans would complain that Sonny Liston didn't come to fight since he chickened out as soon as he saw fit. The remaining 1 fight was against an opponent who gassed in the heat and sultriness of the rain season in the rain forest (George Foreman) and fans would shout "Lame, nowadays heavies cannot go 15 rounds anymore like Joe Louis".
You really did your homework didn't you.. Didn't ESB tell you that ALL athletes evolve and get better EXCEPT boxing???
This thread is hilarious, I love how the Ali haters almost always agree with ALL of the negative views, shows the agenda quite clearly. They believe he lost to Norton 3X, beat Foreman (who was up at the count of 8 LOL yeah right) because of loose ropes, got 120 extra minutes rest against Cooper, was "knocked down" by Wepner, etc. etc. etc. It's like they don't actually watch the fights, but instead form an opinion just from reading about them. Weird.
He was good but like most dominant champions in recent times he was the bigger man in the majority of his fights. The 60s Ali with the slick footwork might have a chance today but the flatter footed hugger version would probably get destroyed by the modern day giants.
You could nitpick at any resume. Name a fighter and you could nitpick it easy if that’s ehat your looking for.
True. As an aside, I believe Ali beats every single fighter that ever lived, so he's kind of hard for me to overrate
I think it's a serious thread. And I'm old enough when they showed most of his bouts on the boob tube. So I've actually seen his fights. In his era he was usually the bigger guy and had excellent hand-foot speed... until the latter part of his career. Ron Lyle (premature stoppage) and Shavers (15 rounds) - who both lost to CW Quarry - gave Ali very tough fights. He went life a death with Frazier 3X. In the 2000+ era Joe would have to decide to boil down to CW or be a fat HW. He would not succeed either way vs. top modern HWs. He's overrated b/c he was a good showman and he became popular when the public started souring on the Vietnam war. All of a sudden he wasn't a draft dodger. What many like you seem to forget is that in the early days he wasn't all that popular w/ black Ams and despised by most of white Ams. It was clearly the increasing disgust of Vietnam that made him into a sort of folk hero. Ofc he was a top trash talker and promoter of his fights. Many years ago in this site someone wrote that it's his worshipers that overrate him. For example when Ali wasn't BSing he admitted that he wasn't a big puncher - and that was in the era of 195# HWs and "big" 220# HWs. Ali was likely 0-2-1 vs. Norton. Ali-Norton III was a robbery. After the fight Norton said something like Ali is bigger than boxing. Norton was right. Compared to modern 2000s HWs Ali is too small and light hitting to be a serious factor. Same with Marciano (too small), Louis (small, chinny), etc. Ali was great in his era - no more or less. Most people have agendas, whether criticizing past or current fighters.
The hard labour of 8,714 previous postings clearly brought the OP to this seminal moment of boxing insight. It's the cogent argument that supports his proposition which is most compelling. Clearly banned because he'd solved boxing. The forum would have fallen on its sword had he been able to subsequently pen: 'Hagler was a weight bully' or 'Tommy Hearns was feather-fisted'. Sad to see how far the forum has declined in the last decade...