Muhammad Ali P4P

This is a really thought provoking post. Because p4p always causes arguments. And Ali is the only true heavyweight I have in my top ten. Skills are skills. Sorry to hijack the thread but also we must consider badasses. That's a big part of the fight game. For example, Stanley Ketchel was a true badass. He was middleweight and on many pound for pound lists. If you are a tough guy, you shouldn't be penalized for being heavy. i have Foreman and Liston around number fifty or sixty.

 

I think heavyweights deserve high rankings on pound-for-pound lists when they have a lot of wins over men who are heavier than them, as many do.
For me, pound-for-pound is a pretty simple formula, and I take it literally, and that's how I see it was originally used when old-time writers used to talk about "the greatest fighter for his pounds" in ye olde days.

Of course the biggest guys shouldn't be penalized either. But the onus is on them to beat everyone. If you're 260 pounds you ought to be beating everyone who is smaller than you to qualify.

 

Ali would be in my top 10 P4P.

 

Absolutely. Pushing top 5 for me.

 

Yes, okay, in reality being #1 heavyweight is far more impressive than being #1 "pound for pound" whatever that means.

Heavyweight champion is Capo di tutt'i capi of boxers. The boss of all bosses. Champion of champions.

"Best Pound for pound" is just some fantasy nonsense. If a welterweight was really better than a heavyweight he'd be able to get in the ring and prove it but we all know he can't.

Fantasy nonsense is fun though, I guess. And it's a good trick to market entertaining and skillful little fighters to masses of casual sports fans.

 

Yeah, it's a matter of opinion, so it's "nonsense" (maybe too strong a word) or "fantasy" or "meaningless" relative to the normal standard procedure of boxers competing against boxers IN THE RING for the rankings and titles. In the weight classes you beat a guy and you go ahead of him in the list ; you beat enough of the right guys and you go TOP of the list. The rankings reflect the proceedings and results in the ring, and hopefully inform the match-making for future honours.

With the "pound for pound" it's just a list of fighters who have nothing much to do with one another. They might all be #1 on their own weight class list and then thrown together on a list, almost for reasons unknown.

 

I have Ali at 5.

You could absolutely make a case for him being #1, and it's hard to rank him outside the top 10.

 

So p4p status gives everyone a weight benefit based upon weight..do heavyweights also reap this benefit among themselves? I have Lennox Lewis as my 4 ATG HW and Dempsey outside of my top 10 and Marciano in my 10-11 slot. Should Marciano be rated above Lennox in a P4P sense? Does Dempsey rise above Frazier Tyson Holyfield who fill my 7-9 slots.

In regard to Ali it has been a while. But I place him outside of the top 10 barely. However my number 1 HW Louis comes in at 7 or 8

 

P4P has nothing to do with weight it's supposed to be a way to objectively compare resumes nothing more nothing less