Muhammad Ali: The true p4p GOAT, or truely OVER RATED?

Yeah. A lot of people do. Problem?

 

He had phenominal speed and reflexes, a titanium jaw, pin point acuracy, enough power, great feet and stamina, and the heart of a lion....And he fought them all and found a way to get it done even when his attributes had dampened (Ken Norton excluded)...And he definately knew how to psych his opponents out...

His resume speaks for itself...At HW, he is GOAT...

 

Best HW ever IMO.
Real close to best ever in the history of boxing.

 

Yea big time. Duran was a great fighter no doubt and got way more wins then Ali but to be ranked higher then Ali? Nah. Can you name me 5 fighters that Duran beat that is better then Patterson, Norton (2 times), Frazier (2 times), Foreman (Unstoppable dangerous puncher), Norton That Ali beat?

 

Heavyweight GOAT.

 

As far as heavyweights go, I rank Ali behind Joe Louis. I remember Sports Illustrated running an article stating Ali to be overrated, although I don't remember the specific reasons they gave...one thing is for sure though, Ali is more heralded for the things he did outside the ring than for the things he did IN the ring. My uncle once told me that if Ali lost every decision he should have lost - but won - he'd have around 10 losses instead of 5.

 

Ali was fortunate to win any of the Norton fights. He lost the first clearly, the second was close and I & many others thought he lost the third clearly enough aswell. Patterson was faded by then aswell and had already suffered those two first round knockout losses to Liston and obviously the wars with Ingo. He stayed around for a while though. Ali's first win over Liston is more impressive than the Patterson wins.

But I mean Duran is a great in his own right. I have no problem with somebody having Ali ahead of him, but it's subjective. They are both pretty much on the same level, in the same tier of greats. Duran has one of the greatest wins in boxing history over Leonard, two weight divisions above his best against a peaked, undefeated top 20 ATG in his own weight class. Buchanan and De Jeuss x2 are great wins at 135 where he's one of the greatest ever in accomplishment and head-to-head. 147 he was good enough to be elite and beats many a great there. He was good enough to go the distance with Hagler at 160 and not be embarassed, and to beat Barkley.

He also beat the likes of Palomino, Marcel, Kobayashi, Thompson, Ishimainstsu, Lampkin, Viruet x2, Mamby, Cuevas, Moore to factor into that. He has a period of dominance in his lightweight reign, and he's jumped through the weight classes and beaten greats. He's got top wins 19 years apart aswell in my estimation (Marcel & Barkley), how about that for longevity.

 

I dont get that to be honest, Norton broke his jaw in round 2, how many times is Norton going to do that? thats why im willing to give him a pass on that way, he won the next fight, and when the third fight came around, yes Norton was robbed, but Ali was well past it then, therefore I have never got this assertion that Norton had his number, he broke his jaw one fight, so not being able to prevail the winner, is hardly a knock on you.

 

This.

Alot of people get so caught up in that, I think he gets ranked higher in many peoples minds because of it.

 

exactly man!.....its a fight after all not a chess match!

 

I don't get that assertion either to be honest. Ali has easily handled other great jabbers like Ernie Terrell. It was only because Ali's footwork and reflexes had slowed that he had trouble with the jab. His obviously technical deficiencies were shown up in the Norton trilogy, but if he had the footspeed and reflexes still from the Terrell fight, he wouldn't have struggled with it so much. I don't think you can put that much of a dent on him for the Norton trilogy, even though like you say he should have lost it overall. To put a dent on him because of the Spinks fight is ridiculous. The most surprising thing is that that version of Ali actually managed to beat Spinks in the rematch.

 

i have him 2nd just behind louis in heavyweights but a top ten p4p all time aswell!

 

i agree man! Lets not forget he lost some of his prime years because of his suspension over the war years! God knows what he could have accomplished in that time

 

dumb ass thread ,for real.

 

Thanks for you're info.

Sorry the thread doesn't meet your requirements.