Muhammad Ali the ultimate h2h monster

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by john roberts, Nov 13, 2019.


  1. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Easily ???? :dunno
     
  2. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    Yes you are right to correct my grammar now your arguments have been blown apart. Thank you, you really are a joker.
     
  3. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Let's deal with facts, Norton always poses problems/beats Ali, your talking crap, as for Holy, he's a top 10 heavy ever, of course he could beat Ali, not a definite. Answer me this Brains, who did Ali ever beat that was as compete as Holyfield ? Dumb as **** Foreman with no game plan ? OAP Liston ? Tiny little Floyd with bad back ? Cooper that had him seeing up Liz Taylor's skirt ?? That was as good an excuse for getting dropped as I've ever heard..
     
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  4. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Was Ortiz blind in one eye dummy ?
     
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I love fanboys that come trotting along with their fantasy fights. It's almost like they have a psychological need that's being fulfilled by their imagination lol
     
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  6. LeeD1982

    LeeD1982 Member Full Member

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    Nowhere near a H2H monster. He'd have struggled like hell with a lot of fighters. A great all-round boxer by any definition and a wonderful character for the sport, but hypothetical H2H is exactly where he falls down in my opinion. Just a few examples (and there'd be many more):

    Lennox - Lewis beats Ali H2H. Lewis had size, strength, power, jab, economy, and the ringsmarts not to fall into Ali's traps, whilst Ali would have struggled to hurt Lewis.

    Hollyfield - is a good call above. A very good call. Both quick, super intelligent with great chins and adaptable styles. Ali slightly bigger but Hollyfield with the better output.

    Tyson - Tyson ain't no wasteful puncher like the young Foreman. He's Frazier-style aggression with much more power, 2-handedness, speed and plain viciousness. Ali could win it late using Hollyfield style holding tactics, but I don't think he survives late against 86-89 Tyson. He's never come across this kind of fighter and of this particular quality.

    Both Klitchkos - for similar reasons to Lewis.

    Larry Homes - Prime Holmes beats any Ali in my opinion. He had his measure and I think they both knew this.

    And that's ignoring the people that did in fact beat or severely hurt Ali. The Rumble in the Jungle was a great win but I always believed Foreman would have won a rematch. He basically defeated himself in the first fight (in part owed to Ali's mind games). Prime ('71) Frazier was legit and Ali will always struggle against relentless pressure fighters in their prime.


    Great fighter - Beyond question.

    Head2Head Monster - No
     
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  7. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Excellent balance post
     
  8. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    Well you don’t take information in very well do you. We have been through this Norton rubbish, like I said Ali didn’t get to Norton till his 43rd pro fight, having been fighting for 13 years as a pro. At that stage of course Norton gave him problems, Ali was nowhere near the fighter he would be in the situation I put forward. I will give you another example, there are two cars you wish to buy. one is 3 years older and has 20,000 miles on the clock, the other is 3 years newer but has 200,000 miles on the clock. Which do you buy? You pick the older car with fewer miles on. its had less hammer and performs better, the point being when Ali got to Norton he had plenty of miles on him, and obviously he doesn’t perform as good as loads of fights earlier, that’s the only reason he had problems with Norton. And Ali beat the man who walked into Holyfield s era and went the full distance with him, when fighting in is forties, weather he had a game plan against Ali or not. ps Ali also has one of the best resumes of any heavyweight present or past. So who’s a dumb ass?.
     
  9. WhoIsAli

    WhoIsAli Boris Full Member

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    Awful
     
  10. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    I respect your reasons why you think that. but the reasons why I think he beats the above have as much legitimacy, all the Above fighters have had what people would call lesser fighters, drop or hurt them, or struggle with, just as much as Ali did in his career. and I suppose my point is we didn’t see the best off Ali where the other fighters we did, I suppose that’s why it’s an opinion after all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  11. LeeD1982

    LeeD1982 Member Full Member

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    Yeah I'd give all those guys >50% chance of beating him (except Hollyfield who'd i'd put around exactly 50%) ; but that by implications means Ali would find a way to win a couple of them.

    Such is Boxing, and sport, and life.
     
  12. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    Very true
     
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali also had a bunch of borderline scorecards and fights that could easily have gone the other way. While he's one of the few guys that I'd say would have a chance of winning against any boxer in history, he's also by no means unbeatable and there's a lot of guys that argue that his resume ought to look much worse than it is.
     
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  14. Boxcel

    Boxcel Member Full Member

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    One thing I'd like to imagine with these classic fighters is how much different they would be if they had access to modern PEDs
     
  15. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    You know I don’t disagree with that, but that could also be said about a lot of great boxers, especially if they have long careers and fight way past their best. Holyfield v valuev, Tiberius v Toney, Louis v Walcott, briggs v foreman. Just to name a few, it happens quite fequently.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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