Muhammad Ali V Joe Frazier 2

Ali probably would have won. Frazier seemed to lose a bit of spark physically after the 'fight of the century' and that means Ali would have been just as likely to outpoint him in 73 as he was in 74.

 

frazier wins again if tony perez not the ref. he had a nightmare or he was paid to be that bad, he let ali hold behind frazier`s head and push him down the whole fight and warned him so many times but did not take points away from ali ,so frazier could not fight his fight

 

Agreed.

Ali was a master at bending the rules to gain any type of advantage. Perez was having a horrible night on both ends of the FOTC II. First of all, in defense of Ali, he might have had Frazier down if Perez didn't mistakingly hear the bell for the end of round 2. I don't think he would have finished Frazier that early in Foreman style, but he could have done more damage if Perez allowed him follow up after landing that right hand shot that wobbled Frazier. Worse is the fact that Perez allowed Ali to continually push down on Frazier's neck on top of the excessive holding throughout the entire fight. Eddie Futch apparently counted more than 100 times that Ali clinched and held Frazier, while not landing anything else significant in the fight, except for the right hand in round 2.
Frazier was quoted as saying Ali's offense was "shoeshine deluxe" and his flurries basically were to impress the judges rather than score effectively. Many will say that this was a clear win for Ali that wasn't close, which I believe is wrong. Neither man did enough to earn a clear victory, but one could argue that Frazier could have won the decision if Perez actually took a couple of points away from Ali, that was more than justified.

 

I think Frazier would have came in in much better shape for Ali than he did against Foreman but Ali was better in 74 than the rusty version that lost to Joe in 71 while Joe had faded a bit himself.... Ali likely takes a UD just like he did in 74 but I felt Joe was coming on strong late on in that fight personally, 12 rds wasnt enough to catch Ali, 15 might have been but I think Ali could dig in to take 1 of those last 3 rds & maintain his lead for a UD.

 

He also thought he heard the bell near the end of rd 2 while Ali was leathering Frazier & saved Joe... yes, terrible night Perez had alright.

 

Ali made adjustments after the first fight and I think he'd pull out the UD, its actually better the way he regained it though

 

The second fight isn't close. I see an Ali UD. I don't get the hysteria over fight II. Perez gives some credence to the Frazier-natics but truthfully it isn't a close fight.

 

Ring did a poll around 1972 about the rematch and most experts and boxing people picked Frazier again. I'd probably go Ali on a split verdict, slightly more motivated being 1-0 down.

 

Ali was in great shape at 214 in 1974 for Frazier in New York................ Frazier was also good at 209 pounds........................... Ali easily handled Frazier in 1974...... Ali won 8 rds without a doubt during their 12 rounder for some NABF / American heavyweight title.............. Peace..

MR.BILL

 

Is it possible that the second fight (the ugly sister) was the most important of the series?

 

It IS possible, especially for Ali. Ali's back was against the wall for the 2nd fight, had Frazier won fight two he'd be forever remembered as the greater fighter of the two (2-0 in their series) and gotten a rematch with Foreman while Ali's entire career would have played out much differently than it did. The Thrilla in Manila wouldn't be necessary, The Foreman fight (The fight many consider the defining fight of Ali's career) would likely have never happened, while Ali himself would be thought of as a very good fighter but a notch below the true Greats.

 

I think if the fight was 15 rounds, Frazier would win it. As you saw in 1974, Frazier was coming on strong in the late rounds and made it close. He would be in better shape in '73against Ali as he would be motivated by hate to pummel Ali. Whether he would pummel Ali is speculation but I believe he would win a decision. It would probably be a close result than the first fight but still resemble it somewhat.

 

I also think that the II fight was a clear victory for Ali. So, in my opinion had the second fight happened in 1973, Ali would have managed to defeat Frazier.

Sure, Joe had come hard on Ali, with all guns blazing, and in a 15-rounds bout, he would have been extremely dangerous during the last rounds. But, at the end of the day, Ali was a superb SMART fighter, able to adapt and change his gameplan, while Joe (regardless his greatness) was kind of unidimensional.

I think that Ali would find the way to deal with Joe an keep him at bay (not an easy task) during those dangerous last rounds.

 

Exactly. But Ali is Ali so the ref didn't call it. The only real difference between the second fight and the "Thrilla In Manilla" was Frazier's body punching. Ali tried to hold behind the head during the "Thrilla In Manilla" but the referee checked Ali early and Ali had to take Frazier's body shots. And as a result Ali had hemotosis and was urinating blood after the fight.

Ferdie Pacheco said that Farzier had beaten Ali up so bad that Ali never passed a physical again and he already saw brain damage taking effect on Ali. People that interviewed Ali said that Ali told them that had Fraziers corner not stopped the fight he might of quit himself, because his body was beaten so badly. After they annouced Ali the winner Ali collapsed on the floor and couldn't even stand up because of the beating his body took.

Frazier did the same thing in their first fight. Frazier went to the body early, and by the 5th or 6th round Ali was slowing down tremendously. Ali got away with hold that's the only reason he won the second fight in my opinion.