This has been discussed over the last couple of days. Middleton was tough,but Muhammad stops him by the seventh. Once Ali repeatedly catches Larry with his combos,game over.
Not so fast Stevie G. When 6' 4" 210 lb. Larry Middleton brought his 'A' game, he was one tough guy. Ali didn't want to take him on in early 1972, because no one really knew how good he was. Middleton even admitted, that he had to hold back in fights, because if he was too good no one would fight him. He was having a hard time getting fights in the States with top guys, and had to venture over to the U.K. to get decent money. He was extremely upset with his controversial decison loss to Jerry Quarry in Europe in 1972, a fight many thought he had won. That really bothered him, because a victory over Quarry would have put him in-line with a possible title shot with Joe Frazier, possibly for late-1972. Or so he was hoping. 1972 Ali vs. Middleton,,,,Ali by 12 round decision (7-3-2 in Rounds) Think of Larry Middleton as a cross between Ron Lyle and Ken Norton ('B" version)
Don't count out a stoppage by Ali. The outcome will depend more on how serious Ali would have been than on what type of condition Larry came in. Middleton was kayoed in 2 by Jerry O'Neal (early career loss - understandable, but does put a question mark on his durability), in 3 by Ron Lyle (at his peak, right after the Quarry fight), in 5 by Howard Smith (near his peak) and was stopped by ken Norton in 10 (near the end of his career). He also lost to guys like Duane Bobick and Scott LeDoux. Also he could not beat Jimmy Ellis when Jimmy was past his best, losing to any name opponent he fought and was nearing his career. All said, a not very happy scenario. I say a serious Ali stops Larry Middleton on Larry's best night. But by comparing Midleton to Ali we are really being unfair to Larry. Larry Middleton did have a good career if you don't compare him to a great.
I envisage Middleton winning a belt,if he'd come along about ten years later. As long as he did n't fight Larry Holmes.
Stevie G, Baltimore-based Larry Middleton was really good. Great articles in the Baltimore Sun about him. In his own words, 'The fight game is for sh*t' 'I have to lose, to win' 'If I win, then I lose, because no one will fight me' My manager Mack, can't get me any fights in Baltimore, even if I give up 90% my purse' Don't take those (2) early blemishes on Larry Middleton's record as legend. Here is what happened in those fights;
On his (2) early blemishes in 1965. In the Amatuers, Larry won the 1965 All-Army Heavyweight Championship. When he turned Pro, he got involved in these so-called '4-Round Smoker' bouts in the Steelworkers Union Hall, in Maryland. There was more money to be made their $750 per Heavyweight fight, than the typical $200 for an organized and sanctioned fight. The deal was in the 4-Rounders, is that if you did not Knock-out the other guy, the bout was ruled a Draw. This eliminated any judges, and or disputes as to who had won. 3 Knock-downs in a Round, was an automatic stoppgae. A referee was in control, in the ring. Remember, this is back room brawls in 1965. Obviously betting was involved, between the union workers. Larry's first 'Pro' fight was with "Big Jimmy' Haynes, 6' 5" and 225 lbs. Larry knocked down Haynes 3 times over the 4-rounds, but was unable to Knock-out the bigger man. The fight was ruled a 4-round Draw.
That norton fight blew out the candles on any hope of him having a top career. Stylewise, that was a guy he could've outpointed but it's a tightrope act in there. I tend to think he was just one of those guys that suffered too many ko's in a close timeframe and it took it's toll. That chin became easier to reach and to dent and the recouperative powers just weren't the same. Tough sport to be in if the recouperative powers go south. Wasn't Chaplin another Baltimore area guy that kind of had a similar career or am I remembering wrong?
zad, That first fight with Ron Lyle out in Denver, was a controversial bout. Larry got thumbed in the 2nd round, and could not continue. In the 1st round, he nailed Lyle and won the round. Was also in contol in Round 2, until the thumb.
Thanx. Never heard much about those early 73/74 hometown Lyle fights but I moved there right afterwards. I do recall stories about the Bonavena and Ellis fights though as tough fights. Hardly surprising. The fact is that Ron Lyle never did take that path of least resistance type matchmaking and fought a lot of tough guys once he became sort of a national name and ranked guy. I certainly do remember nobody giving him any sort of chance against Foreman. Everyone figured that to be a typical George destruction and not the back and forth classic slugfest we got. And of course, there certainly weren't many Lyle backers for the Ali fight either. But when you think about it, just how many guys were expected to do well when that competition is named Ali and Foreman?
What do you know about Chaplin? Wasn't he similar or am I confused about his homebase? I always thought Chaplin was pretty good & wonder if he was a disciple or crossed paths with Middleton? Another regional type heavy you'll probably recall fondly was the Cleveland guy, Koraniki. Man, there used to be a bunch of those guys around in that 70-80 timeframe that were kind of regional put really never had that big national career. Stan Ward was another guy of that same ilk I liked. Or Dino Dennis. Guys like that, good solid fighters that were in shape that had their upsets on occasion.
ZAD, George Chaplin was another one of those guys that snuck up on everybody. A very good quick-fisted fighter, with medoicre power against the bigger guys. Hit the big-time with his upset win over Duane Bobick (cut-eye TKO). Style much like Jimmy Young, but a little more aggressive. Would have been a safe-opponent for any Title holder. More of a Top 20 fighter.
I remember Larry breaking into the top 10 by upsetting Heavy Prospect the young Joe Bugner, on Bugners home turf, - he floored Joe and Broke his Jaw in the process, before taking the decision. then came the close Quarry Loss, Quarry of course had Ko'd british Champ Jack Bodell in 60 seconds, Larry's effort was seen as a worthy result for a talented up-comer, of course the Party was spoiled by Big Ron Lyle, and it was pretty much a decent from there, but on his night, if allowed to establish his rythme he could trouble quite a few rated fighters. Perhaps Larry Middleton Vs Jimmy Young might of been interesting ?
Larry Middleton weakness was the body shots. Thats how Jerry Quarry got back into the fight. Style-wise, he may have given Muhammad Ali some rough-trouble through 8 rounds, in 1972. If Ali was in-shape, he would have swept the last 4 rounds, for a good decision win.
