Muhammad Ali .Vs. Evander Holyfield

see holyfield-douglas

 

That comparison is beyond reason - come on??! Ali was already suffering from Parkinson's by then - and I still only scored it to Berbick by a couple of rounds!! Haha but seriously that is a ridiculous statement - Holy was still an excellent boxer and and excellent athelete when he fought Larry Donald - he wasn't a Parkinson's ridden hospital patient who shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a ring - watch the Quick Tillis fight from earlier in Holy's prime days - it's just a styles thing - Holy just wasn't the type to suit boxer mover types and, quick as he was himself, when people were quicker he's always lost that advantage which makes him as successful as he has been in the heavyweight division - and let's be honest overall in his own era his record has been a bit patchy losses to Bowe and losses to Lennox lost to Moorer split fights with Ruiz didn't really shine against oldies like Holmes and Foreman got rocked big time by 3rd replacent Bert Cooper etc we can't expect him to suddenly turn round and beat The Greatest convincingly can we?

 

Not sure yet as i am still working my way through it, hehe.

Pretty much on the button what you posted mate.

 

Ali by close UD

 

:-(

 

no, it isn't. holyfield was probably older than ali when they fought, respectively, berbick and donald. is that really the holyfield you would use, even mention, as head-to-head argument fodder?

holyfield proved himself plenty. ali would be in for some rough times vs holyfield. make no mistake.

 

What are you talking about? Let's see ... superior athleticism in terms of footwork and handspeed combined with good size and a stellar chin and you don't see the ingredients for success in the ring? The sport has simply moved beyond these modest trifling abilities? I mean it's not like Ali had any influence upon the succeeding generations and was the most watched and imitated model for those future successes, right? I mean .. who was Sugar Ray Leonard? Who was Roy Jones, Jr.? Or, more recently Floyd Mayweather, Jr.? If the model couldn't work for Ali today then these fighters should have never made an impact. I'd say they are rated rather well. Does anyone doubt that SRL could be a force at 147 today?

That there has been no heavyweight "Ali" since, is testament to how poor the depth of the sport has been and how it would take an increasing (rather than decreasing) rate of participation in the US (a whole other topic) to find large athletes with the relative kind of hand speed and foot speed that we've only seen since in smaller guys like SRL, RJJ, etc.

How many fights did Ali miss out on - and not due to injury - but rather due to circumstances between early '67 and late '70? That is probably equal to another ten fights and and couple reels of highlights demonstrating an extremely coherent package of feints, elusive shifts, two handed flurries, and domination showcasing the ability when it mattered to hit his opponent with punches not seen coming and avoid being hit in return - not the guy into his 30s until the end of his career that was less mobile and took progressively more punishment to deliver his own.

The best of Ali is simply a stronger hand than the best of Holyfield who is comparably less natural in the ring and Ali would land first, more effectively, and more strategically. The punches that are often the most damaging are those that a fighter did not anticipate or sense was forthcoming. Ali's ring guile and one on one athletic vision meant he would have "known" Evander's game better than Evander whereas Evander would have been more likely to walk into traps. RJJ did not have Ali's chin but his ability to strike and avoid being hit in return allowed his punches to add up and break down larger opposition so that they either got stopped or took less chances to avoid getting hit cleanly and hurt. Unlike the telegraphed punches of many heavyweights post-Ali, clean punches from Ali were more than adequate to handle all that have come to the sport since. Boxing is the one sport - at the heavyweight level specifically - that has really not made substantive advancement to any degree and fighters from the 80s & 90s would obviously do just as well today. Ali from the 60s & 70s is the one fighter that would also make the transition seamlessly to the present. He IS the very example of the type of fighter that can out-skill brute force. His attributes and skillset are what many of the best in the sport are still seeking to emulate and obtain.

 

Holy never liked being the slower man in the ring. He needs to beat the man to the punch and land the punishing combinations.

Against Ali he'll be the slower man facing a target who's never stood still to ship the combo.

Ali close points.

 

evanders prime was 20 years ago, surely he's not a modern fighter?

how is hollyfield gonna ko ali? i cant see that happening at all., i was gonna make a case for holly but, as many people have already said, ali's speed advantage is the biggest gap between them and makes a very difficult night for holly.

 

I have to go with Ali here...though it would be a good fight to watch. holy reminds a bit of a bigger Doug Jones and he gave Ali trouble thoughit was a somewhat green Ali. Ali of the late 60's would be too fast for Holy. Too much hand and footspeed for any vrsion of Holyfield. Ali of the 70's would be Evander's best chance...if Holy came in a bit lighter than his bulked up version. Then he could use speed and workrate to eke out a decision. Neither man is knocking out the other. They both had great chins that were tested against big punchers so it would be decided by other factors. In the ened I see Ali winning. In a 3 fight series, Ali 2-1.

 

John Ruiz had Holyfield dropped so good he made Wlad look like a guy who never clinches.
Ruiz started at a lower weight than Ali too so Ali can stop Holy too.

Glover is an idiot so I can get away with such a flawed analysis

But I do think Ruiz as he wasn't a very big hw shows that Ali can have succes too if he fights today.
The only thing Ali might be worse at than Ruiz is Ruiz his bearhug.

I do think Ali wins as Holyfield would probably try to brawl and that gets him hit way too much.
UD Ali

 

At some point, when faced with assertions that are so daft, one doesn't counter but simply giggle or shake one's head.

What the **** are you talking about ? That kind of boxing ?

That was not a 'kind of boxing" but something unique in the HW division, before or since.

Do you have the faintest idea what you're trying to say here ?

The same combinations that stopped Quarry, Bonaveno, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle etc. ?

How long have you followed the sport ?

Yep, 'cause that happened a lot in Ali's prime...


And maybe your best line..

List a few, just to amuse me.

 

Here's another one who needs to be removed from this forum :roll: I just despair I really do??? atsch. You can not seriously be saying that there is any similarity in the extent the Ali of the Berbick fight and the Holy of the Donald fight were washed up!!?? This is beyond ridiculous - can we please get rid of people like this from classic - this used to be a place frequented by people that really knew their stuff - now it's just being saturated by brainless idiots like this - I'm sorry if this upsets anyone but I'm sick of this kind of **** - trying to say Ali of Berbick and Holy of Donald were washed up to the same extent is like saying me at 36 is gunna be at the same disadvantage as another 36 year old who is missing their legs ffs!?? This is just night and day?? Black and white?? In the last 30 minutes I have just read the 2 most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum in about 15 years of being on here!? atsch:roll: what is going on?

 

your. Mum.

 

man, ignore these 2 clowns..