Muhammad Ali vs Igor Vysotsky

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOPnzGQLN28[/ame]

 

Where's it say that in the article? Anyways i'll let my eyes along with his achievements tell me otherwise.

Yeah cuts were his achillies heel. Vysotsky also had a win over Clarke and Clarke lost 3 times to Stevenson. Igor also had a KO over Tony Tubbs.

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...pg=2112,5067965&dq=igor+vysotsky+weight&hl=en

Vysotsky usually weighed between 210-215. His weight against Clarke was listed at 213 pounds. In 1975 he weighed 209 for another fight.

 

and? Like i said i'm supposed to form my opinion solely on some article in a Canadian newspaper? Footage iv seen and his achievements weigh more heavily for the basis of my opinion that whoever wrote that.

So he was a solid 210-215. Good to know.

P.S. These USA-USSR duels were broadcast on American TV. How come none of these fights have surfaced?

 

The footage I've seen doesn't indicate that he's superbly skilled. A very solid boxer no doubt although I wouldn't classify him as a two-fisted, bigger and stronger second coming of Joe Frazier. He did lose in the amateurs, in his physical prime, to opponents that were not nearly as experienced as he was.

Jimmy Clark for example was 20 years old and did not have much of a career as a pro. While I wouldn't count out Vysotsky having a solid career as a pro, his tendency to cut would likely eliminate him from title contention.

 

From the man himself:

ESB: If you had to fight them, what tactic would you use to win?

Igor Vysotsky: The same thing I always did in the ring.

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Other than that, it’s a technical matter. I’m pretty sure that not many of today’s champs could take my punches.

 

Possibly although the quote from him also seems to indicate that he wasn't much of a pressure fighter.

 

His wins over 6'6 Stevenson, 6'5 Mitch Green, 6'3 Tubbs, etc would seem to indicate the contrary and that he was more than adept at getting inside on taller fighters.

 

He did not seem to fight on the inside against Stevenson.

 

Okay let me re-phrase that. He had no problems getting into range to land his punches on much taller opponents. No i don't think he fought off their chest.

 

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Vysotsky but his description seems about right. He did show he could take on taller opponents but he probably did so by jabbing and countering. I haven't seen him do the bobbing & weaving that he is talking about but I imagine he must have been quite good at slipping and blocking the opponents' jabs while landing with his own. Think of Ruslan Chagaev in his better days for example.

The amateurs is all about outscoring, not really putting a beating on your opponent. The body punches and in-fighting are often discounted. That's why I struggle to see him as another Joe Frazier.

 

I agree with your description of his style. He seems like to have had a 'counter-pressure" style where he pressures you by taking away your space using his feet and lands his shots by countering on the outside or at mid-range. He isn't going to work inside, fight off your chest and smother you. Chagaev might be an example, i was thinking that Tszyu fought in a similar manner or Adamek at CW in regards to the type of pressure they applied and the way they generated their offense.

I disagree with your amateur comment though. As a generalization yes, but:

1) "185 fights, 161 victories, half of which ended early" Igor's description of his record. Over 90 KO's doesn't sound like a point oriented fighter.

2) Back in the 70's, with no headgear it wasn't as point oriented as recent decades.

and as far as amateur fighting today goes i think that's inaccurate. Yes ultimately you try to score points but that isn't to say most fighters fight with that type of style. In my opinion that's why Cuban fighters have shown a much lower sucess rate into becoming successful Pros when compared to fighters from Former Soviet countries.

the Cuban school is geared around scoring points and a pot shotting, pitty pat punching type style, or amateur style, and the majority of their fighters use that. That definitely isn't the norm for Russian, Ukrainian, Kazakh, etc fighters. Ukraine won 4 Golds and 1 Silver out of 10 weightclasses at the 2011 World Championships recently and they didn't do it by simply "touching" their opponents. Body punching and infighting are also two things that alot really excel at.

Watch MW Khytrov. I love his style, he really impressed me. Here are the MW semi's and finals and Khytrov and both opponents Juratoni from Romania and Murata from Japan are no pitty pat point getters.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfp82BBAQow[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHOt84bB4zU&feature=related[/ame]

Ukraine's two most gifted fighters imo FW Lomachenko and HW Usyk are very athletically gifted and would excel using a Cuban pot shotting pitty pat style but fortunately neither use that bull****.

 

He was a 3 round amateur boxer. You're pitting a 3 round amateur boxer up against seasoned and proven 15 round professionals, and not only that, but all time greats. Never said Ali was invincible and destroys everyone, but he would've absolutely DESTROYED this AMATEUR in the pros.

 

Transitioning to the pro's is way, way tougher than most simply take for granted it is. I was a very good amateur, with a heavy punch and a pro style, and I struggled severely. I've done better as an older fighter than I did fresh out of the ranks in the 80's.


No way is an amateur, no matter how good, beating a great champion over 15 in any universe. Especially not a guy who you were not at all likely to catch with a lucky shot like Ali.

The Russian is class, and possibly were it him in there instead of Spinks the first time he could have gotten it done, but I doubt it. Spinks had late rounds experience, which, trust me, is pretty damn valuable.

I had an amazing gas tank as an amateur. Trained just as hard, struggled going 6 or 7 rounds out as a pro and not coughing a lung up. Its something you learn and get a feel for with experience.

 

I didn't think the initial point of this thread regarded whether Vysotsky could have jumped straight out of the amateurs and fought for the championship but rather could he have developed into a championship fighter.

Also, he looks quite good on the film here, getting into his range without a lot of abuse, and then dishing it out. He's got good balance, good reflexes, very trained. I compared him to Povetkin in an offensive sense but someone pointed out Chagaev, which I think is more apt in regards to his overall game.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that boxing was denied some potentially great fighters by the political realities of the 20th century.