Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis prime for prime.

I want to see Joe Louis fight Mike






















Weaver

 

Ali from the first Liston fight is the best version of Ali for me.

With that said...here come a controversial statement:

There is a chance that with Ali’s lack of standard defense and Louis speed and timing that Louis could actually stop Ali at anytime in the fight and a series of quick shots that stop Ali’s movement long enough for Louis to deliver two or three shots that Ali cannot avoid.

For those that use Conn against Louis I can use Frazier and Cooper against Ali. As in, if Frazier and Cooper can put Ali down on the mat...Louis can keep him there

 

That’s correct. Both men have flaws that the other could exploit. Also the analysis of Louis struggling with Conn, is true in terms of footwork but many other factors besides that came into play - Conn was a much different fighter than Ali. He was smaller than Louis and that allowed him to repeatedly ducked under Louis’s hooks throughout the bout. He was also defensively responsible with his guard when he didn’t duck, and blocked many hooks. Ali never ducked, he pulled away. Conn’s best punch was a hook, and he varied for head and body like an expert while Ali always went to the head, in short other than great stamina and the ability to move they are completely different fighters.
On side note I’m amazed how good Conn looked he was so focused in that fight he was a true ATG in that fight during a losing effort.

 

Yeah, I don't get Conn-Ali comparisons. Much different fighters and we all know how Conn fights ended anyway.

 

Louis would have chances against anyone.

...and much different fighter than Conn. Besides, I'm not sure if he was that much faster. Conn was certainly better defensive fighter in a fundamental sense.

It's not that simple. Conn had less and less energy to move, he was hit by Louis for whole fight. People often recall this fight as Conn domination before the stoppage, but it's not true. He did far better than people have thought he would, but Louis walked him down and stoppef him (similary to other boxers he defeated).

I'm not sure if Ali was that much faster and he certainly wasn't more skilled. Their skills and styles were much different, so it's tough to compare anyway. I agree that Ali hit much harder.

Louis survived so many punchers and boxers that I find Ali stopping him unlikely. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

Louis would beat 95% of elite fighters from 1960-2020 period and it could be an understatement.

 

Louis and Conn were the same height.

 

When Louis is getting dropped by fighters like Galento, badly hurt by Conn, and completely taken apart by Schmeling, while in his PRIME yrs. It's hard for me to envision him beating Ali, Liston,Frazier, Foreman,Holmes,Tyson, Lewis, or Holyfield prime vs prime.
I have said on many occasions Louis is the most dynamic heavyweight in history as far as total offensive skills. Offensively he was a powerhouse. Jab, right hand, left hooks,uppercuts, all delivered with destructive power, with little wind up, punches seldom traveling more than a foot. No telegraphed or exaggerated movements. Greatest combo punching heavy in history.
But That offensive genius hid some weaknesses also. Slow foot speed, average defensively, average, possibly below average chin.
If those fighters I mentioned were just standing their and letting Louis tee off on them, of course he'd ko them ,may kill them.
But in a competitive boxing match their chances would be excellent.
Some only look at a fighters from their strengths. I look at stregnth and weaknesses .
I see a lot of weaknesses Louis had that could and would be exploited be other great fighters.
Its doesn't change what Louis was able to accomplish against the fighters he faced.
But to say or insinuate the fighters he faced were on the level of the fighters and time period I mentioned, basically since Louis was able to take apart for the most part the fighters he faced, he'd be able to take apart the elites from the 60's through the 90's is a hugh disservice to those fighters . Because those fighters had there strengths and weaknesses also. But unfortunately for Louis for the most part, there strengths would cause major problems for him.

 

This is nice analysis...even though as a Louis fan I hate reading it. I want to disagree outright but on first read it is compelling.

Honestly, I need to go back and read the context of your response but it is seems to be a honest post.

Great post (I hate it...hahaha)

 

It's interesting to see modern day trainers try to learn and teach Louis to today's huge Heavyweights. To shorten the foot movement, to use the upper body laterally to gain angles, to quicken the hands from a relatively static base.
Today's trainers are having to do this because today's Heavyweights simply can't attempt to box like Ali. The power to weight ratio is impossible. And maybe they are beginning to realise Ali was simply one of a kind. What he had was more about him than it was about Boxing and what can be taught.
I don't think any pre Ali Heavyweight could have beaten Ali because they would never have seen anything like him at his peak. You think you've trapped him in a corner or on the ropes, a shimmy of the shoulders, a sidestep and he's out, back in ring centre. If he stands still for a second he's thrown a four punch combination before you've got your jab out to set him up.
Joe Louis was so great that nearly a hundred years on trainers are trying to teach their Heavyweights how to box like him but he could not have handled the 1964 - 1967 Ali. The 1970's version would have made for a great Fight.

 

Excellent post but I can't agree with your point about about Joe's feet being slow. Joe made tiny adjustments with his feet as he feinted and as he punched, always re-positioning himself while never moving off his centre. It is actually a thing of beauty. Minimal and hugely efficient.

 

Very good point.

 

Ali is just all wrong for Louis. It's almost the worst stylistic matchup I can envision for Louis. I like his chances better against Foreman and Liston types, than Ali. This seems pretty clear, and the comparisons used against Louis for Ali; seem more logical and convincing than the analogous equivalent against Ali for Louis. This seems clear as well. As great as Louis is, and he is, I see Ali dancing and punishing Joe throughout the fight, and talking while doing it. The only vision I have of Louis winning, is him doing what I'm saying and winning, but getting cocky and trying to mix it up, and getting countered and hurt badly. Even then it's Ali, he could survive. Anyways, I think people are giving slightly more credit to Louis chances here just because he's Louis, and we'd like to think he's got an almost even shot; only thing is, here, he really doesn't have a close to even shot, in my book, he's swimming against a pretty strong riptide

 

Ali can run but he can't hide. This is a far better match than some of you think.

 

I think Louis wins a close decision, mostly with his jab, following up with body shots. He might corner Ali or trap him on the ropes a few times during the match but Ali would weather the storm and slip away. Ali would win a few rounds and have some success with his own jab but Louis would edge it.

 

Unpopular opinion but Ali by comfortable UD.

I'd give Louis a better chance against Foreman, Liston, and Frazier