Muhammad Ali vs. Larry Holmes - 1967, 1971 and 1974

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fogger, Oct 19, 2022.


How Does Holmes do against 1967, 1971 and 1974 Ali.

  1. Wins All Three

    9 vote(s)
    22.0%
  2. Wins in 1967 and 1971

    5 vote(s)
    12.2%
  3. Wins in 1967 and 1974

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. Wins in 1971 and 1974

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  5. Wins in 1967 only

    4 vote(s)
    9.8%
  6. Wins in 1971 only

    5 vote(s)
    12.2%
  7. Wins in 1974 only

    4 vote(s)
    9.8%
  8. Loses All Three

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
  1. FThabxinfan

    FThabxinfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    71's Ali is the one who's fresh from layoff and was rusty,I'm picking him to get beat soundly by Holmes,he'll go competitive but still get beat into an UD, whatever margin but atleast Holmes winning by 3-4 more rounds.
    For prime Ali in the 60's, nobody's gonna put Holmes in that match, Ali UD.
    Then,the 1974..if I remember that's the Ali who had transitioned well into his heavier weight,power and adapted his style too,50/50, possible FOTY.
     
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  2. 1970s Fan

    1970s Fan New Member Full Member

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    Larry Holmes was certainly an excellent fighter. He had good hand speed and stamina, an excellent and powerful left jab, took a good punch, and was an admirable champion. I used to enjoy his fights in the 1970s and 1980s and specifically remember watching his classic fight with Ken Norton in 1978. I have great respect for Larry Holmes. With that being said, it is important to note that Larry Holmes learned a great deal and became a better fighter as Muhammad Ali's sparring partner from 1973 to 1975 and left Ali's camp right after this epic battle in Manila. The 1967 version of Muhammad Ali was the ultimate fighter with unmatched hand speed and foot speed, great stamina, sharp instincts, unmatched reflexes, and the ability to simply move out of trouble's way. While Larry Holmes was admittedly great, it would have been very difficult for him to land punches on Ali, Ali would have repeatedly beat Larry Holmes to the punch, and Ali could have danced all night at that point in his career. Larry Holmes would have repeatedly been hit by a succession of punches and would not be able to adequately respond. Therefore, I see the 1967 version of Ali winning a convincing unanimous decision or earning a TKO anywhere from round 11 to 15. The 1971 version of Muhammad Ali provided Larry Holmes with his best chance. This is because Ali was in exile from April of 1967 to September of 1970 and in his first real test after a 3 1/2 year layoff against Oscar Bonavena in December of 1970, he had definitely lost a full step in timing, speed, reflexes, and stamina and his legs did not look properly conditioned. He ultimately won that fight by knockout in the 15th round but his performance demonstrated that he was no longer the same fighter he was 3 1/2 years prior. In reality, Ali needed more time to understand his new limitations and challenges that confronted him. With the reality of ring rust as well as lack of consistent training and adjustment that confronted Ali in 1971, Larry Holmes would have had a better chance of beating Ali in that year. However, if the fight took place at the end of 1971 and Ali trained seriously for this fight, I would still pick Ali because at his best, he was a superior fighter to Larry Holmes with faster hands, better reflexes, and a stronger chin. However, similar to the 1971 Frazier fight, if Ali could not properly regain his skills at this point, Holmes would have an excellent chance. Finally, 1974 showcased the best post layoff version of Muhammad Ali. Ali still had faster hands than Larry Holmes at this point, had unmatched stamina, his punches were accurate, and Ali's chin was perhaps the strongest in boxing history. Therefore, it is difficult for me to conceive how Holmes could have outpointed the 1974 version of Muhammad Ali, especially when Ali seemed to be at the top of his game and still showed no significant signs of brain deterioration at this point. Interestingly, I think that Larry Holmes would have had a much better chance against the 1975 Ali, a slower version of the 1974 Ali, and I would have picked Holmes to win against the 1976-1977 Ali. With reference to 1975, the Ali who beat Frazier in Manilla was not the same Ali who beat Foreman in Zaire. Therefore, while I love Larry Holmes and have great respect for him, having lived through these times, I do not believe he could have beaten the 1967 or 1974 version of Ali and while he had a better chance against the 1971 version of Ali for the reasons stated above, the outcome depended on Ali's regaining of skills and reflexes at that point.
     
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  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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  4. nyterpfan

    nyterpfan Member Full Member

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    Oct 7, 2021
    1967--Ali with a convincing UD or late stoppage--simply too fast and sharp for even peak Holmes.

    1971--The FOTC version of Ali also wins by UD or late stoppage. Ali would still have the edge over Holmes in hand speed and a stronger chin--combine that with a harder punch than he had earlier in his career and that would be too much for Holmes to overcome.

    1974--This would be Holmes best chance--but Ali would win a war of attrition with his great chin, stamina, and sharp punching power--a hard fought UD.
     
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