muhammad Ali vs Rocky Marciano 15 rounds

Watching this one last time, Enry doesn't throw a single jab to set up the knockdown.

He probably just remembered it wrong, I'm sure if he had a video right in front of him he would even admit as much.

1. Cooper crouches down and weaves under a couple Ali jabs and fires a rising left hook that knocks Clay back into the ropes.

2. Clay comes back and its Cooper who actually has his back to the ropes. Clay comes in with a left hook, Cooper ducks under it with his full torso and comes up with his own hook, knocking Clay down.

That is exactly as it happens.

 

You've completely cracked now. Ali goes down INTO the ropes. How the fvck can Cooper be the one with his back to them when he throws the punch?

Are you sure you even know who Cooper is?

Have you ever actually seen the Wembley fight?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX8fq1TcmKM[/url]

After you've watched this clip, go to the other one of Marciano approaching the guy in a crouch, STAYING there, drawing leads, blocking and slipping them, and then coming up to land his own shots.

Then keep trying to convince yourself that they BOTH fought in a similar style.

What part of " Henry Coopers legs simply weren't strong enough to fight in Marciano's style " can't you grasp?

 

He ducked under the punch but he did it to avoid the blow not to create an opening for his hook,well that at least is what Cooper says, and he was there at the time.

To equate Cooper and Marciano as being in any way stylistically,or physically similar is just not a viable proposition.
The problem with seizing on the first Cooper fight as some key to how a Marciano battle would go is 1.Ali was still green ,

"In the second round I could see where Clay was still amateurish. He was a novice at in-fighting he really had no idea at all" Henry Cooper.

"He'd learned a lot about inside work.I couldn't rough him up as I did before.He would grab me and hold until the referee broke us up."Cooper on the second fight.

2.Cooper and Marciano are chalk & cheese.

Marciano looked poor against Lee Savold, should we endlessly examine that bout as though it will give us insight to a match up with a prime Ali?
As for what I must or must not do, I think I'll decide that, I get my old age pension on Thursday, it's a bit late in the day to be taking insructions from a complete stranger whose line of argument on this topic , is though interesting scarcely credible to me.
Nothing personal.

 

Cooper himself says it was the ropes that created the opportunity for his hook.

 

-Of course he ducked the punch to avoid the blow, and in doing so, it created the opening he needed for the two hooks that led to the knockdown. Clay throws a punch, Cooper ducks under it, Cooper comes up and loops his arm into the opening, its pretty simple. I dont' care if he was there at the time, I'm watching him on video. Memory is subjective and changes over time.

-If you are under the impressoin that Cooper was fighting tall and hooking Clay off the jab in the specific sequence I outlined, I can certainly understand why you can have a problem with a Marciano analogy.

-I'm not talking in general terms, I'm outlining a specific and well documented vulnerability that Clay had to the left hook. If someone can point to a sequence in the Savold fight that would manifest over and over again throughout Marcian's career, it would certianly be valid.

-Ali did learn to protect himself better in the clinch from rough housing, Cooper caught Clay by surprise in that first round of the first fight to be sure. Cooper is on the money here.

-Well, McVey you are free to incorreclty remember the fight as you see you fit. But there will be no more discussion with me on the matter. It is fruitless to argue footage with someone going by memory and quotes.

 

Not in the way Cooper is claiming.

Clay came in and threw a hook at a man who's back was against the ropes, when it was ducked, where do you think he ended up?

 

"Do you own a video camera? "

"I like to remember things my own way...How I remembered them. Not necessarily the way they happened."

[url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jWBRJHIIchA/UCAWQi1_V5I/AAAAAAAACK0/lFcMcp_Yqi8/s1600/lost+highway+4.jpg[/url]

 

PASS, off to Rome.:good

 

Ummm... Are you saying the results of this fight are in any way disputed? Did not Ali entirely dominate?

I seem to remember a very formidable primed opponent named Foreman delivering high volume punishment to Ali's body and still getting knocked the f u c k out.

The problem is that Ali face opponents who were bigger and more formidable that Marciano but Marciano never faced someone as skilled and primed and as big as Ali in the style which Ali fought.

Capisce?

 

Eh? I never once suggested the results were disputed. Where are you pulling that from? I personally had Ali winning most of the rounds but he certianly took heavy punishment in doing so. This is not an unsual observation regarding the fight.

Foreman didn't have the gas to keep that pressure on or the good sense to stop walking into the right hand. Foreman was an easy target and Ali was free to sit on his punches more than usual and make everything count.

No Heavyweight faced someone as great as Ali, except for the people who actually faced Ali. Ali would be the betting favorite no doubt.

 

Ali takes Marciano by decision or late round TKO.

 

Ali was superior to Marciano in all aspects except power, marciano was not even a true heavyweight (he was a cruiserweight but this division did not exist back then) Marciano had to come back to win against an old ezzard Charles and an old joe walcott and this guys weren't as fast or as powerful as Ali. Both Marciano and Ali had tough chins and could endure punishment,Ali however had the size advantage,more speed, more skills, longer reach and better foot work than Rocky marciano moreover Marciano bled easily while Ali hardly ever got a scartch in his prime therefore this fight would really be a mismatch, marciano would put up a great fight but eventually the difference between the two would become obvious, Ali would have to endure some punishing blows and will probably move around the ring to avoid getting cornered he would counter marciano's hits with fast flurries and almost surely land more punches (the reach and the speed would be a deciding factor in this case) in the final rounds Ali would have the advantage as marciano would ake one last attempt to knock him out, he would be covered in blood and probably have a swollen eye (but being the warrior that he was he would keep on fighting), eventually the referee would be forced to stop the fight because marciano would be deemed to injured to continue Ali would run to Marciano's corner and hug him showing Marciano respect for hanging in there despite all the disadvantages that Marciano faced going into the fight and Marciano would do the same. This would have been a great fight to watch.

 

I will pick a peak ali without a doubt but i have no doubt also he would piiss blood after of the fight

 

Yes. Plus he omits the fact that despite rocky was better overall chuvalo was 30 pounds heavier than rocky,bigger stronger with better chin

 

My favourite double left hook was the one Rocky hit Ez Charles with I think in the last round - it was brutal! No idea why or how Charles didn't go down that guy had one hell of a chin!