Muhammad Ali vs. Roy 'Tiger' Williams

Absolutely,

There was a very good reason why Sylvester Stallone modeled his character "Rocky" after the almighty Chuck Wepner. I mean can you really think of a better historical figure to draw a parallel to? I think the reason why Chuck became an all time great was because of his street fighting experience and the tips he learned while chaufering mobsters around Jersey. Even washing the limo from time to time, taught him the " wax on, wax off " defense.

 

Williams is always spoken about in frightened, hushed tones.Having said

that, as scary as he was supposed to be, Tiger lost to Richard Dunne

 

Larry Holmes was crystal clear in his description of the Ali/Williams fights in his autobiography. They are described as serious fights with neither party gaining an advantage.

According to Holmes, Williams did not back down at all. So it all comes down to whether you consider Holmes as a reliable witness. (Are there any other eye witnesses to the Ali/Williams matches that have gone on record?)

In his autobiography, Holmes shows great respect for Williams as a dangerous fighter, but describes how he was screwed by the machinations of boxing and never got the breaks he deserved, becoming embittered by the unfairness of the game.

I also remember Holmes writing that he was loudly rooting for Williams in another sparring match, but Williams just told him to shut up.

 

wow yes, wepner schooled a green foreman during 3 rounds lmao, chuck was his rival number 4 and foreman stopped him in 3 rounds. liston was destroyed by leotis martin in 1969 and sonny destroyed wepner in 1970.

 

This tale makes Ali seem like a villian, when we dont even know what caused the dislike between the two.

Now if every sparring partner was coming out of the woodworks saying that they were treated bad by Ali, okay now theres a problem. Larry Holmes, one of the proud men I know in boxing, said that Ali treated him well in camp.

 

il duce, as much as i enjoy your writings on sonny liston, i'm growing to hate every other post and thread you make. you have a clear agenda against ali. no matter what you write, he'll still be ali. your hatred taints every post you make on the topic and it's very hard to take you seriously

 

Yes, and that's largely the point of the story.
I'm certainly not one of those who will argue that Roy Williams was anything more than a medioce journeyman, but I won't dismiss the notion that on this occasion at least he proved himself capable of going on even terms with the world's champion.
And, yes, you are right, he probably lacked the necessary inner will to get motivated in real career fights as he obviously had when he felt he'd been cheated. That's how Holmes describes him, a guy who would be thinking more about beating up his manager or a promoter than the guy he's supposed to be fighting.

 

Well, it was Larry Holmes who told this story. So, it's probably accurate, since he had no axe to grind with Ali.

I don't think it makes Ali out to be a villain. It's just an employee-employer dispute, they happen. I think you're far too sensitive about anything said about Ali.

 

Well said Mr Magoo. Yet another 'Ali gets spanked by sparring partner' story. Ali would definitely have thrashed Williams,if they'd laced them up for real.

 

Williams was good sparring. A motivated sparring partner would of been ideal preparation for Ali, who seems to have loved hard, proper sparring.

I also believe Williams could of given Ali 20 hard rounds over two days. Ali needed to peak for a fight, not for a sparring session, unlike his sparring partner.

What was the point of Ali peaking in a sparring session with Tiger Williams? As mentioned when the fights got serious, Williams found a way to lose to Richard Dunn!!!

Williams was a good name on the record, it showed you had got a to a certain level. That certain level was a level achieved by Ali in the early 60s, he had no need to prove himself against Tiger Williams come the mid 70s.

 

Which further proves my point, what does Ali have to prove against The Tiger, what his his motivation?

I can understand Williams being fired up, particularly if he feels hard done by, or cheated by Ali.

But sparring is sparring, Greg Page famously decked Tyson in sparring; Lamon Brewster sparked Lennox Lewis, George Foreman was flattened by Hassan Shabazz. But it was Messrs Tyson, Lewis and Foreman who we remember. They won the fights that mattered, and did not leave their best in the gym.

Williams was a solid fighter to a level, but the evidence of his career shows him hardly hard done by. Kudos, he gave Holmes 10 tough rounds, but he blew what would of been a good win over Shavers, and on the way up suffered a couple of poor defeats.

Maybe if he had found a way to beat Shavers he would of got a match with Lyle or Bugner and maybe even a rematch with Young. But he gave every reason for fighters to not fight him, by not being motivated for fights he should of done better in, maybe even won.

That was not Young's, Lyle's or Bugner's fault, that was the fault of the bloke that Williams looked at in the mirror each morning.

 

I guess that shows Ali was a pretty decent fella, and Williams a fine sparring partner that Ali wanted to keep onside, for future fights.