Muhammad Ali, who did he actually fight?

Well, son, do you slide down pixie dust rainbows to swim in honeydew rivers along a gumdrop forest?

I mean you must be all sorts of special. You see a rule change as a sport change and since you must be right and the world, the entire western culture, all of christendom, we've all been mistaken for three thousand years and counting?

Boxing's original rules: Offense punches until offense can no longer punch. Defense receives punches until Offense is too tired to throw or Defense is knocked out.

Not Unified, not Queensberry, not LPRR or it's revision, not Broughton Rules, not even Ancient Olympia is it? What is it then? What do you call it? Ye Olde Face Punch Spartan Army Game What Happens To Be The Source For Modern Unified Queensberry Rules Boxing?

 

I just cant be bothered to suffer fools and the older youve gotten the more foolish your posts have gotten to the point that they are completely asinine now. Its not like you have a bad moment here and there as we all do its that every ****ing thread you start is so far off the mark its mystifying. Youve been around for almost 20 years and its like your knowledge of the sport has decreased at the rate most people knowledge would increase over the years. On a regular basis your content shows a complete lack of context and ritical thinking but also often the basic facts. When challenged on this you slink away. Go back and check some of the post youve made that Ive referenced and youll see you cant be bothered to back up your ascertions when it starts getting too hot in kitchen. And to that point Im still waiting on you to post your degree and coursework that illustrates your self title "historian" is anything but your own flight of fancy. No? Didnt think so. Ill add that to the list of times youve tucked tail and run when your ass overloaded your mouth.

 

Pedro Agosto called him out several times, and Ali did nothing.

 

Why is this the most active thread on the ****ing classic forum! Literal garbage.

 

Ali was terrified of Ron Stander, would have nothing to do with him.

 

A simple yes or no would be sufficient although I do share your interest in ancient Greece .. I'll just say you see little difference between bareknuckle fighting and M of Q and I do, saying it is another sport all together.

 

This content is protected

 

No I do understand what you're saying. You're not the first to say MMA and LPRR are more relative, but to say that then make LPRR not boxing is to say it's history and culture are not boxing which is just not true.

I agree with the idea that the rules are vastly different but not with the idea that difference makes an entirely different sport. It doesn't. MMA is re-proving what boxing already knows because boxing as been where MMA is now. Look at LPRR and tell me it was not obvious to any historian that wrestling and boxing would take over MMA.

Wrestling + boxing has been the mix to make the perfect fighter in western culture for over three millennia. Wrestling comes and goes from boxing over time as part of boxing. It's where we got all of our clinch work from.

Hell, I agree with the idea that John L may need more Queensberry wins, but the idea that his LPRR wins are not boxing wins fit for a boxing record is silly. Where did the footwork come from? The basic punches? Posturing and positioning? These are relative to BJJ footwork? MMA in general? No, not it isn't. LPRR TDD is different from current MMA TDD isn't it? It is more similar to modern boxing's clinch. Because that's where it came from while MMA bull**** is so made up their biggest star didn't even bother to get a team that was capable of teaching him how to punch through a ten ouncer. It has **** all to do with LPRR who needed gloves to come in because they learned to hit too damn hard for gloveless fights.

 

Because no one gives a **** about Menalkes or Whittaker, and I just don't give a damn about fantasy fights. Those threads, no offense y'all, are boring.

 

I completely disagree .. If George Foreman was able to grab Muhammad Ali in Zaire and throw him to the floor it would have been a much different fight and result. There are endless similar analogies .. it is a different sport. Look at any wrestler vs boxer legit match up .. if the wrestler can only box like in a Dempsey Lutrell it is a mismatch for the boxer most often bar fluke. If the wrestler is able to grab and throw it is a complete other contest ..

This content is protected

M of Q is a definite set of rules .. gloves, rounds, breaks between, no throws, no spiking .. I say that having to operate in specific parameters is completely different favoring some skill sets over others. I am not nor have I ever said that Sullivan lacked aptitude or skills to some degree, particularly early in his career ( 1881 - 83 ) before the booze took over. I am just saying as I have always been that I am judging him as a M of Q fighter .. I do not know any other way to make this point clearer.

 

Of course if you change the rules they will fight differently. It doesn't change theory. When is position X you should do action Y, that is one long story called boxing.

How often do you read about a spinning backfist in any form of boxing? Why? Boxing theory says is you give me your back in range and I will end this fight right now. MMA gets that **** from TMA, they get their history from TMA, theory is TMA, and culture is TMA. It's connection to boxing is weak to this day. LPRR fighter trained Queensberry. MMA fighters are trained by men like Jackson whose system is made up bull**** he came up with when he was in HS by mixing folk wrestling and kickboxing. No connection to LPRR at all.

Theory sets the stage before the fighters train or the rules are set. One long martial art that has been adapted over and over again to fit different rules that make said martial art more appealing to spectate.

MMA is still buying and believing in made up bull****. Their HW champ just fought a man whose camp believes training degrades a natural. Not even a little bit boxing.

Your connection from LPRR to MMA is superficial. Boxing is boxing because it's all connected and linked and not many people feel like you should completely negate those connections solely due to rule changes. Boxing is now and has always been much bigger than the rules allow it to be.

 

What shocker. Im still waiting on your credentials as a historian. Crickets chirping...

 

And I think you're ineffective in presenting a convincing case proving LPFR skills translate to M of Q performance. Also pretty sure your another alt playing games and this is getting boring. If I'm wrong no hard feelings but I doubt it ..

 

Well, at least give me the benefit of doubt to enough to explore my work. I dare say I'm one of the most respected even though I'm brand new, and if you do click my threads you'll see I'm not much for spreading my own opinion, just what is history. I'm no clone, and no man could pretend to be mine without a herculean effort. Or to say that differently what kind of ******* makes an alt for their proper research?

Perhaps I've done a horrible job, but I think it would behoove you to at least look into why it is considered one sport. It's not as if I made up the stance, I don't honestly even see it as my stance so much as I'm the fella trying to explain the stance that's in more or less every boxing history book that covers 1720s through 1890s to you.

Bit like the present lineal argument and those who say Wlad was never because Vitali was. It's a fine logical argument, but your against the world. So yeah if I told a Vitali-lineal-believer Wlad was lineal because the world sees him that way there's plenty of reasons they can use to say well the world is wrong, but isn't that battle lost at that point and at best all one can win is semantics?