Muhammad Ali win over Floyd Patterson.

Very underrated win, Ali himself claimed that Patterson was the most skillful fighter he fought. Past his best but still good enough to put up a tough fight.

 

Patterson's back problems devalues the win in the eyes of some, but I think they only started to come into the picture after 5-6 rds. Ali was already well on top by then. He did what he to wanted in there.

 

Floyd also gave Muhammad quite a competitive fight in their second go in 1972. Considering Floyd was 37 years old at this point,he deserves a lot of credit.

 

Patterson being wiped out inside a round TWICE by Sonny Liston is the correct answer as to why Ali's win over him is barely rated.
Especially since Ali has two wins over Liston anyway.

 

I think that Floyd did better in the second fight against Ali. The Liston fights did hurt Floyd's legacy. Floyd did improve with age, like Walcott did, but Liston would have always clobbered him because of style, and size was also a problem, similar to Foreman vs Frazier. Let's face it: creating the Cruiserweight division was a good idea. Floyd is definitely underrated. He had some great wins. He beat Bonavena, Ellis (in my opinion), Chuvalo, Cooper, maybe Quarry, Johanson, Machen, and others. He was a good man and an exceptional fighter.

 

Ali was much bigger than Patterson, in the rematch he gained another 8 pounds or so while Patterson lost around that. Watching the rematch it looks like 2 different weight classes really. Ali had around 25/30 pound advantage and fighting a guy below 190 doesn't have the same power as a guy over 200 it just doesn't, so ali was going to take his punch. Add in speed of Ali which Floyd relied on ,it would have been near impossible for Floyd to win here. It was competitive b/c Ali wasn't a power puncher and probably was watching for Floyds left hook. Ali should have beat Floyd almost every time. He may have done better the second time but winning is another story, hard to imagine he k.os Ali in 1972 and that's what he would have needed to do.

 

I was so impressed with my Hero's effort against Ali in 72 (almost 38 yrs. old). He wouldn't have won that fight but he would have taken it deep and IMO simply lost a competitive decision. I've said this before (come on all you boxing pundits that have probably seen more obscure fights than me) but the eye of Patterson that closed was the result of his first comeback fight after Ellis (two years later) against Charlie "Devil" Green. Sidebar: Injuries to older fighters often never heal properly. Green heat butted him early (that ***** with Clancy in his corner of all people!) and Floyd had a BAD gash over that "Ali" eye which limited Patterson's vision not to mention it was his first fight in two years. Fortunately in the 10th Floyd nailed that dirty little stinker with a left hook to the ribs which probably broke a rib (I hope!) and left the little "devil" gasping for air and OUT!
In the first fight the back problems were there; again Floyd couldn't beat Ali but it could have been a better fight.
My somewhat limited $0.02

 

You could most certainly argue they are underrated wins.

Patterson met his stylistic monster in Liston, or certainly one of them.
Frazier met a stylistic nightmare in Foreman.
Norton in Foreman as well.

Frazier and Norton dished out all sorts of beatings and/or great efforts against other top fighters, even great fighters. Patterson did pretty well outside of Liston as well.

Patterson being blotted out by Liston has dropped his stocks disproportionately i reckon. If by some circumstance Frazier never fought Ali initially and only met him after he was pumped by Foreman i reckon a lot of people would have seriously doubted Joe Frazier's true abilities, which with what we know would have been wrong.

 

In the mid-late 1960s, Floyd Patterson proved to be on the same level as Quarry and Ellis, and not significantly better.
So I don't think Ali's win (or wins) are underrated.

 

But Frazier did fight Ali after losing to Foreman, and was very competitive with Ali still.
He also thrashed Quarry and Ellis, who Patterson had close fights over the full distance with.

Patterson had been absolutely battered by Johansson 3 years before Liston did it too.

Frazier is a level above, based on record.

 

Patterson was the number 1 contender, I think, and would continue to be in the mix for another seven years. Giving him such a one-sided beating was impressive, if one doesn't think that Floyd's back problems played a big part.

But at any rate, Ali looked very sharp. This, together with the Terrell fight, might be him at his best. He had matured since the first Liston fight and felt, like he did with Terrell, that he had a point to drive home.

 

You completely missed my point.

 

Okay, I re-read it and think I get it. You mean Frazier's abilities would have been seriously doubted up until he proved them against Ali ? I understand that.

But perhaps I disagree that the Liston-Patterson fights have "disproportionately" diminished Floyd's rating. When you take his whole career, his results outside of Liston are those of a very mediocre level for a champion. The fact that he was dominated by Ali, had a brutal trilogy with Johansson and fought around the same level as Ellis and Quarry puts him towards a distinctly lower category anyway.

 

IMO everyone is missing the point. After Liston he cleaned the table against Machen, out worked Chuvalo taking big shots and would have made a better fight than he did in 65 without his back issues (not winning but a better fight) I was around then; Patterson had put himself right back into the mix with the Eddie-George wins and there were many who thought he had a chance in Vegas. It was a big win for Ali; after Patterson it was simply (before his exile) going thru a list of over the hiller's and up and comers. Floyd continued after that. Had his head been screwed on straight, he should have gone 3-0-0 against Quarry-Quarry-Ellis. That would have put him at 58-6 with four losses to Ali-Liston and a teenage loss to Maxim and a loss to Ingo who he avenged brutally. No one kept him down (at 188-190) and no one ever could. I don't understand all the negatives thrown at Patterson, truly an ATG with the fastest HW hands in history...