Muhammad Ali's power was underrated

Can we not bring up the second Liston bout? I agree with the thread topic but man... Liston at best didn't pick up the count in time/was afraid to stand cause Ali was over top him, Ali also didn't TKO Liston in their first encounter rather Liston quit on his stool after he obliterated the tendons and muscle his own shoulder after punching air for 6 rounds... which is the result of Ali but I still think it was more so a choice of Liston than a result of Ali. Frazier also wasn't a real TKO it was a corner stoppage by Futch... Frazier could've easily continued. He was forced to quit.

Ali didn't really stop Liston (arguably).... and didn't floor him either depending on if an individual feels Liston took a dive or not.
Bonavena was an automatic stoppage as the 3 knockdown rule was in effect and it was the 15th round... Bonavena would've lost regardless.
Foreman is in my opinion a great fighter and generational power. This is imo Ali's best win.
Ali never stopped or floored Frazier this cannot be ignored. Futch stopped Frazier.
Quarry is a good fighter.

I say all of this while being a full proponent that Ali is The Greatest and my personal favorite heavyweight. But his resume should be honestly evaluated and can stand on it's own legs without exaggeration. I appreciate your post, and from the wording of it I would say that Boxrec is not always the best representation of a resume and contextualizing a fighters wins and losses is just as important as the win or loss itself.

 

To be honest, sure Muhammad Ali had more power in his return from his 43 month forced exile in Oct 1970, but he was lacking his natural gifts that he possessed in his first title reign from 1964-1967 prior to the forced exile, the loss of his title and license. Ali got tagged more, his reflexes were starting to fade as well as his timing. Ali's unending stamina and legs were starting to go along the wayside, his speed was still present, he did have more punching power. I know that he stopped Oscar Bonavena in round 15 on Dec 7 1970, but he did take some punishment before the stoppage, yet controversy brewed on the scoring prior to round 15. We may never know the outcome if Jerry Quarry had never been cut on Oct 26 1970. Ali was ready to quit against Joe Frazier on Sept 30 1975, if the fight had not been stopped by Eddie Futch. And the title regaining bout against George Foreman who many blame on the climate, the climate had to affect Ali too, it takes two to fight. George Foreman thought Ali was a washed up old man at 32 years of age on Oct 30 1974, but that old man outfoxed that youngster of 25 and kayoed him in round 8 after drowning him in that deep lake in Kinshasa.

 

Valid observations, and laid out in a almost unarguable context, and of which I concur.
stay safe buddy.

 

If Muhammad Ali's punch was underrated, then Joe Frazier's chin was underrated too. Argue otherwise.

 

I take it as a stop is a stop. Wether knocked down or not. It counts imo. Or should count for something. Yes his power is underrated. I believe Foreman compared Holyfield and Ali as in similar power ranges. Sounds about right to me

 

His power was not usually underrated.
The Ko's you cited were mainly from accuracy, & exhausting the other guy.
His effectiveness at achieving a stoppage often was underrated, not so much how hard he hit.
Which could be decent, but distinct from how efficient & ennervating Ali could be.

It is also quite dubious that Liston ever reached 43, but that is another story.

 

There maybe a degree of underrating.

Post Miami, Liston stated that Ali’s power surprised him and that Ali had a stiff punch - and we can see that Ali did in fact shake Liston up in their first fight.

Ali rocked Foreman well before it could be argued that Foreman was floundering from being gassed.

Ali also brought Lyle undone with a single right hand punch.

The left hook that first put Bonavena down was titanic - an ATG KO shot for all intents and purposes.

Wherever you rate Ali’s power the bemusing part was how he could really hurt some fighters while others were relatively unaffected.

We should factor Ali’s hand issues (requiring injections) which must have affected how hard he could punch at different times.

Ali’s hands caused enough issues for him to even have to lay off the heavy bag when training for certain, upcoming fights.

 

Hey Pugg, these were a majority of things I had not even considered. Ali's hand injections certainly resulted in a large differentiation between his performances I would imagine. Ali changed tactics... a lot. When one aspect of Ali's game failed he could strategize against ATG's like no one else. As much as people see him as one dimensional, I don't think anyone could fine tune a style like Ali. It didn't always work, but he was able to adapt his own style to so many different opponents.

I think Ali could have hurt Frazier... if Frazier didn't hate him so god damn much lol

 

Little known fact, Muhammad Ali injured his right hand during his title defense against Karl Mildenberger on Sept 10 1966 in Frankfurt Germany. Ali returned to the U.S to get ready for his 5th title defense of 1966 against Cleveland Big Cat Williams on Nov 14 1966 in Houston, Texas.

 

This is one of my favourite clips of Ali hitting the heavy bag. Plenty of power and snap for mine - is that a 60 lb bag do we think?

It’s described as being from 1971 - I believe because the clip was featured in the doco THE FIGHT which focused on the FOTC.

I believe the clip is actually from 1966, Ali training for the Brian London fight.

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Ali used to marvel at Frazier's chin in some interviews. He would do it in an insulting way but he didn't believe he could have taken the punches Frazier took. Not many could have.

I do agree with the OP that Ali had a good sharp right hand and he was a big man. When he came down off his toes he could mess a guy up. Ron Lyle is another guy he stopped after messing around most of the fight.

 

I agree with what you wrote.

One thing though, hate is a strong word…but in so far as Frazier felt about Ali, - it FITs to a tee!

Joe would’ve died before kissing the canvas against Ali. Damn near did in Manila - both of them.

 

That right Ali landed in Manila in round 13 sent Joe's mouthpiece flying into the crowd...I agree Joe was crazy.

 

True, In order to hate someone, you would have to have loved that person first.