Okay, I'm putting on my head gear as I prepare for the onslaught. Tell me what you think Ali's real record was. I'm going to be generous here. Ali can have the Jones fight. I'll also give him a draw in Norton 2, even though I think Norton deserved it. I'll give Ali a draw against Young -- Jimmy outscored him, but I didn't like his hiding outside of the ropes tactics. I think Shavers won his fight with Ali, though I know many disagree. I don't feel like arguing much, I just want to hear what you have for his record. I know a few people think Ali won all three Frazier fights; let's hear from those people, too. So, for me, I have him at 52-7-2.
51-8-2 He didn't win the second Liston fight. Liston by DQ was the proper call. Ali repeatedly refused to follow the ref's instructions to go to a neutral corner.
Yeah Henry Cooper was robbed too, because of the split glove Ali was allowed an hour to recover. He blinded Ernie Terrell with pepper spray,Bribed Eddie Futch to hold Frazier down after the 14th rd in Manila. Had a razor in his glove against Quarry . Got Dundee to give Ellis a Mickey Finn . Bribed Perez to poke his finger in Frazier's eye. Ali really only won about half the fights he is credited with.
Hi lost 2 Chuvalo (1st f8 ) and Cooper (1st f8 ) , et mowst 4 him hi dru wiz Jones . Never bit Chuvalo in zeir 2nd f8 izer. I onli wocht hiz f8s vs Norton end Shavers 1 taim ich, end it woz yirs egow so I hev no klir opinion ebaut zem. Young I dabt if i wocht entaierli sow far sow seim gowz 4 him. Hiz f8 vs 4man is a NC.
OP once said to me he wanted to know why Ali lost to Berbick if the was that good, and said he refused to believe any of the Parkinsond story Ali apologists come up with.
Take away the 3rd Norton fight for sure. Perhaps a Draw with Jimmy Young. And everybody knows Ali was badly beaten vs Inoki! This was ruled a draw, but its was in fact a robbery. Inoki won it.:smoke
The third Norton fight is the only one I'm absolutely sure of where Ali was gifted. The rest I think were questionable.
The only two questionable wins on Muhammad's record,for me,were Norton III and Jimmy Young. I have Ken winning it by three points and the Young fight was very messy. I have it as a draw. Doug Jones Ken Norton II Joe Frazier II Earnie Shavers All close fights but Ali won them all,in my book.