Muhammad Ali's resume has done serious damage to boxing (excuse my rambling)

Did I stutter ?

 

I beg to differ.

It's true Bivins didn't contest many fights at LHW, 15 actually (allowing for non-title fights contested a few lbs over), going 14-1, with the only loss coming against the consensus GOAT at the weight, Ezzard Charles.

What he lacked in quantity at the weight, he more than made up for with utterly absurd quality, beating Charles (GOAT LHW), Lloyd Marshall (top 20 all time LHW), Joey Maxim (arguable top 20 all time LHW), Gus Lesnevich (LHW world champion), Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz, Billy Soose, Nate Bolden & Curtis Sheppard.

This is easily a top 5 all time LHW win resume & his only defeat is to the GOAT at the weight, who he also beat. His lack of quantity at the weight means I don't rank him top 5 (I have him at #8), but with that win resume, he isn't just top 10, he's a lock for the top 10.

 

I don't think so I just think regarding modern Heavyweights they are so inactive and haven't fought many ranked fighters, that when you compare them to any notable Heavyweight of the past forgetting Ali their resume and scheduling looks like a joke.

For example Fury only has 3 wins against opponents ranked in top 10 and he won title 8 years ago.

Wilder only 2 wins against top 10 ranked opponents he also won the title in 2015.

And these Heavyweights are supposed to be some of the best of this era.

Just compare it to other notable Heavyweights of past like Holmes and Lewis just those 2 alone almost beat 30 ranked fighters compared to only 5 for Wilder and Fury......

 

He called himself "the greatest", I do not.

 

That is your priviledge my friend We all have an opinion I happen to agree with Ali

 

No one is unbeatable, He was the nearest thing to it Ive seen. Just imagine if he hadn't have that 3 1/2 yr ban what more would he have accomplished ???

 

They should stop giving out medals in the Olympics too and instead give participation certificates. I mean what about those that aren't good enough to win a medal?

 

We are not talking, we are typing my friend.

 

Louis beat a top ten argue in Walcott, beat a boarder ATG in Max Bear, and beat a great in Max Schmeling.

Marciano beat a ATG in Louis, beat a great in Walcott and Charles.

 

If others contribution to the conversation is is he sucks or his record is crap then find other people to discuss it with. Even if they think Ali's record is the best there is that does not stop them bring able to have a grown up discussion on other fighters.

 

The reality is, only one of Ali's opponents has been a consensus top 10 since he retired after his prime years- and that's Larry Holmes. Of the ones you refer to:

George- seldom, if ever, in top 10s based on his 1st career. Now a consensus top 10 after his comeback.

Joe- in and out of top 10s down the years but generally 'out'

Sonny- as above, but seems to be now 'in' after a few books were written about him. In this issue of Ring from 30 years ago (link below)- it has every weight divisions top 5, a few 'bubbling under' and one selection for each division who is 'overrated'. Liston takes the overrated slot here. A few books and documentaries later and whoosh, he's back in the top 10. And this is after we have Evander regaining the title 'again', Tyson claiming another version of the crown and Lennox's prime.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/File:94May.jpg

 

From the 1999 Holiday edition:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Evander Holyfield
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Jack Dempsey

Ring Magazine: Top 50 Heavyweights of all time: - BoxRec

From The 2017 edition

1) Muhammad Ali
2) Joe Louis
3) Jack Johnson
4) Rocky Marciano
5) Larry Holmes
6)Jack Dempsey
7) George Foreman
8) Joe Frazier
9) Mike Tyson
10) Sonny Liston


From THE RING: The greatest heavyweight of all time - The Ring (ringtv.com)


BTW, George Foreman should be on anybody's top ten list and is a Head To Head monster.

 

Aye. Liston not in Ring's top 10 in the mid 70s, put together by writers who'd seen him in action at ringside and again in the mid 90s he gets called overrated in the same magazine with no place among the "best".

Then a few years later he's back in... Like I said "in and out", I expect him to be top 5 in 20 years when everyone who actually saw him fight "live" is dead.

 

I seem to recall that Louis typically was ranked behind Dempsey and even Johnson the decades after his retirement, by people who had seen him fight. Fleisher had Johnson as his top dog and Schmeling and Arcel had Dempsey.

Not that I'd have all three of Liston, Foreman and Frazier in the top 10, I think, but I wouldn't call the rankings coming soon after a fighter's retirement the most reliable.

 

Some might not have had the sterling competition available to them in order to compete with other seemingly greater resumes but they still did fight all and sundry - the best they could do.

I think Liston’s resume - admittedly mainly pre-title - is outstanding in that regard. Just as was Jack Johnson’s pre-title resume - like Sonny, he basically had to clean out the division before being afforded his shot at the title.

Jack was already 30 when he got his shot and 32 yo when Jeffries finally agreed to fight him - and Sonny, well, take your pick but I’d say at least 32 + yo before he got Floyd in the ring.