Henry Cooper once wrote a piece on the Ali-Frazier trilogy. Very good article but I disagreed with Our 'Enry's thoughts re Muhammad's hand and footspeed. Henry stated that Ali's speed had slowed up by 30% between the first two fights. Although Ali had slowed up a tad from his sixties best,I don't see any difference in his speed between 1971 & 1974. If anything,his footspeed and movement was at it's fastest in the second Frazier and second Norton bouts since the sixties. Not quite as fast but near it. From 1975 onwards you could definitely see a slowing up. Especally after Manila. Thoughts?
The article was in a Boxing News special to commemorate that magnificent Ali-Frazier trilogy. Read it if you can.
I agree I think Ali post exile was at his best in the second Frazier and Norton fights and in the Rumble in The Jungle.
Ali hand speed was at it best in the early to late 1960's. By the early 1970's it definitely slowed down a little but he became better fighter adding counter punching to his game, and clinching. This allowed him to beat Frazier, Norton, and Foreman, which IMO are among his best five wins! The 1970's Ali beat better fighters by a wide margin.
Ali was still plenty fast in 71-74. Those right hand leads he bounced off Foreman were lightening fast. Interestingly I watched FOTC and Fury-Wlder 3 back to back last night. Fair to say size is about the only thing the latter have over the former. It was almost like a different sport. The speed, technique and conditioning that Frazier-Ali showed over 15 rounds made the other fight look like slops imo. Probably why it’s still considered the best and most important heavyweight fight of all.
Yes indeed. If Ali had chosen to show his footspeed off in the Foreman fight,there is very little doubt in my mind it would have been just as fast as it was against Norton and Frazier second fights.
The output of work from Ali and Frazier was indeed off a different planet from today's big men. Much as I like Fury.
Hi Buddy. Different solar system more like, we see lots of posts about how the fight game has progressed, how much fitter and better conditioned latter day fighters are, more aware of what to eat, and what not to eat, science we are told as made the fighters better, stronger, just all round better fighters, well that may or may not be true of the lighter weights, but it is hard to see in the HWs, when was the last time we saw a good tough competitive 12 round fight, I don't follow boxing like I did, so I will stand corrected if there has been some, back in the late 60s and early 70s most , if not all the top HWs had 15 rounders, the likes of , Ellis, Quarry, Terrel, Chuvalo, Spencer, Bonavena, to name a few, would go deep into a scheduled 15, not only that, it would be fought at the same intensity, square that with the Wilder and Joshua as an example, that appear to be gassing after 5/6 rounds, also with today's crop, the big catch phrase is " going into camp " and the " camp " would be for 3 months ? tell that to , Greb, Armstrong, Moore, Zivic, and co, Hearn tells us Joshua will be ready to fight in April or March, really..... then we have Joshua excusing his defeat of Uysk by claiming he is not fit enough for the endeavors of a torrid 12 rounder , begs the question what has he been doing in camp for 12 weeks !!. Sorry, but the latter day HWs , fat boys like, Whyte, Ruiz, Ortiz ( maybe ) hold no allure for me, I have seen the best the HW division can offer, and today's champs and contenders ( with a very few exceptions ) leave me cold. stay safe guys.
I've been saying this for too many years; for all the ballyhoo over boxers lifting weights, becoming objectively stronger and better conditioned, I have yet to see anyone show definitive signs of dominance with these programs. The HWs especially still gas early (IMHO), KOs happen as they always have, punch output is not better than the legends who labored under "primitive" training, conditioning and nutrition. I'm not saying the new programs aren't any good, but boxing remains it's own animal with too many variables to be corralled by one philosophy. They may be better athletes with all this stuff, but that doesn't always seem to translate into better performance in the ring. All being said, this stuff can certainly play a role in terms of longevity and injury prevention - stronger muscles don't get injured as frequently, and recover faster when they do. A sound program of core/stabilizer strengthening pays countless dividends, but these aren't noticeable in terms of ring performance - only years down the road will the benefits become apparent. Just my .02, YMMV -
I think that Muhammad Ali in the second fight against Joe Frazier on Jan 28 1974 had good speed and movement although he did lack 1967 speed, endurance, footwork, reflexes and timing. Ali almost ended their fight in round two but referee Tony Perez errored by thinking that the bell had already rang, but Ali did rely on the ropes in the later rounds due to fatigue.
