Muhammed Ali and PEDs

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by xnico, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I must have missed the referee aiding Ali for large tracts of that fight when George was pummelling him on the ropes.
    I must have missed the right hand the referee hit the punched out George with that ended the fight.
    George wasn’t counted out at eight, this is just simply a rewriting of history,
     
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  2. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The historian/film maker is correct about you getting triggered & unkind.

    Now for pursuing the facts-please provide any hyperlinks for proof. No "WTFs", just evidence please.
    I am especially suspicious that Dundee ever said he bribed the ref.
    Do not get upset again & assume I am saying you are lying-there is a lot of bad & wrong information out there, we want to see if you could possibly not be mistaken.

    The tape likely made no difference one way or the other. Not helping does not mean hurting.

    You have avoided my point about the diuretics. First of all, Ali took more than he was prescribed.
    Most importantly, while not as bad or health destructive as the thyroid drug, the dehydration to reach a certain weight & look only hurt Ali.
    A performance de-enhancer.
     
  3. George forearm

    George forearm The forearm of George banned Full Member

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    Agenda driven posts on esb, no wayyy.
     
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  4. downgoeslyle

    downgoeslyle Member Full Member

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    This is the most asinine comment in the history of any forum ever.
     
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  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can post photos of Ali from early 1980, but they are readily available online.

    Muhammad Ali was a bloated mess before he started taking those drugs, and when he began taking them they worked, and the weight fell off, he took more and more until he practically ODed on them.

    They stopped working when he took too much but kept taking them.

    If your argument is yes he was taking them but he took too many, so, therefore, it doesn't count ... that would be comical.

    But I don't want to put words in your mouth.

    Second, the Nevada Commission was going to take Ali's boxing license away because he was taking that stuff, and held a hearing in December 1980, and Ali showed up and agreed to voluntarily give up his license as opposed to having the Nevada Commission rule he was cheating and take his license from him.

    If Nevada ruled he was a drug cheat and removed his boxing license, all the other states would follow. So, in yet another example of how "cheaty" Ali's team was, they figured if Ali gave up his boxing license in Nevada, he would not be subject to any ruling and he could fight in any of the other states. So Ali gave up his Nevada boxing license at that hearing, and the Nevada Athletic Commission accepted it and decided not to issue a formal ruling. So Ali didn't have to go on record as a drug cheat.

    But Ali and his team soon discovered that the rest of the athletic commissions knew what was going on and wouldn't sanction his fight with John L. Gardner, anyway.

    So he ended up fighting Trevor Berbick just outside the U.S., where there was no athletic commission.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
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  6. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Maybe the C. I. A. aided Muhammad Ali too, no, wait a minute, it was probably the F. B. I., or President Mobutu's mafia. Or lastly as part of the conspiracy to end the reign of George Foreman, they brought back Lee Harvey Oswald and Sonny Liston from the grave, to do the job on George, in order for Sonny Liston to reclaim the title as revenge for 1964 and 1965. Ha ,Ha, Lol. Conspiracies are born out of very bored authors. Like Joe Friday used to say on the television show Dragnet, Just The Facts Mam. I do not pay any attention to that kind of balogna. It happened plain and simple. Does not the author have time to write a comic book?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
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  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    George Foreman went down from a combination with less than 10 seconds left in the round. The referee directs Ali to the neutral corner ... but Ali doesn't go there. Instead, he casually walks back to his own corner. Bob Sheridan shouts out the count along with the referee's count. Foreman is up at eight standing right in front of Clayton. There are no seconds left in the round - the round is over. The referee has only counted to eight. And Clayton waves it off. The officially ruling is listed as a KO at 2:58, which it clearly was not.

    Foreman appealed to the WBA and WBC. It wasn't like people were replaying the fight over and over again on the news. If you didn't watch the fight on closed circuit or if you weren't there, you didn't see it. Foreman didn't even see the replay. The film wasn't shown on home TV in the U.S. until January 1975 and was not shown again (and wasn't available for viewing) until the 1990s.

    If, in next month's heavyweight title fight, Tyson Fury is pummeling Wilder on the ropes for eight rounds, and Wilder lands a left right and drops Fury with 10 seconds left in the eighth. And Fury gets up at eight and is standing in front of the ref with no time left on the clock in the round ... and ref STOPS IT ...

    I'm going to say this board won't agree that was a legit stoppage. No "Are you okay?" No "Walk over here and then walk over there and then show me your gloves." No 18 to 20 seconds to decide if Fury is okay to go on. No Wilder going to a neutral corner. Just count to eight and stop it with Fury on his feet and no time left in the round.

    I think people might think that is a ridiculous stoppage.

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    Just a wild guess on my part. (LOL)

     
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  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That conspiracy theory might attract the attention of Oliver Stone, a Movie will be written, called The Magic Punch, Ha, Ha, Lol.
     
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  9. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's not the punch. It's the referee's actions.

    Like I said, if the same thing happened next month, or in Joshua-Usyk (after Joshua spends eight rounds pounding Usyk on the ropes), I'm sure it wouldn't be easily dismissed.
     
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  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We could change the title to The Case Of The Dirty Ref. Hamilton Burger would be the prosecutor, with Perry Mason as the defense. In conclusion, the ref is washed with soap and water, Lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
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  11. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Anyone can watch the film and see that Foreman was down for the full 10 seconds. The TV commentator just lost track of the count.
     
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  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just like anyone can watch the film and see that Ali didn't go to or stay in the neutral corner. Just like anyone can watch the film and see that Clayton wasn't looking to see if Foreman was okay, he was just trying to get to 10 as fast as he could (was the last count NINETEN ... because he didn't get to 10?). Just like anyone can watch the film and see Sheridan is counting right along with him. Just like anyone can watch the film and see the round is clearly over when Clayton waves it off (it wasn't 2:58 of the round).

    That was the fastest full 10 count in heavyweight history with the fighter scoring the knockdown not going to a neutral corner. (LOL)

    Regardless, long story short and back to the topic of the thread, Ali's team was a notoriously dirty corner.

    And they openly bragged about it. Even Pacheco went on record saying he'd inject Ali's hands with novocaine before fights in the 70s so he could puncher harder, because Ali's hands hurt him so much in the second half of his career. Most wouldn't know a lot of what they did, but they couldn't keep their mouths shut. They bragged about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
  13. xnico

    xnico New Member Full Member

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    explain/sources?
     
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  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Explain? The fight wasn't shown until the following year. That's when it was shown.

    There wasn't ESPN back then. There wasn't 24 hour sports. It didn't air on network television. The networks didn't have the rights to it.

    ABC bought the right to rebroadcast it, but they had to wait until the following year. When it did air, on January 5, 1975, it was the second highest rated show in the history of ABC's Wide World of Sports. Then it didn't reappear on television until NBC put a special together on Ali-Liston, Ali-Foreman and Ali-Frazier III in the 90s.

    For practically the first 20 years I followed boxing, you couldn't see the fight. Even when they would do retrospectives, they would just show still photos.

    I remember recording the awful movie The Greatest (the 1976 movie about Ali) because it actually included clips of the fight. (But I had to delete the between rounds footage with Ernest Borgnine as Dundee LOL).

    It just wasn't around.

    Once ESPN bought the rights to air it on ESPN Classic, they wouldn't stop showing it. But, for decades, it was pretty much not available for commercial use. Not even highlights.

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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And the only thing I've seen Dundee say he did with the ropes in Zaire is actually shortening them, because they were too loose.
     
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