Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by xnico, Jun 29, 2021.
Ali 100% used PEDs for the Holmes fight.
My argument was not that taking illegal substances does not count as cheating.
But again, if he took them in a way & quantity that they backfired & Zombie-F(r)ied him, the reality is he only hurt his performance.
So you can ding him ethically-as I do for much personal conduct, such as how he treated & betrayed Joe Frazier, & some insane racial ideas (although he was great personally with all groups)...
But he not only was not trying to transform his whole body through steroids to something it never would be naturally...
While losing weight too quickly & illegally & it working would count against him if it worked, the failure does not detract from his boxing legacy if it only hampere his performance.
Just like if the corruption that you speak of re: the referee is paying him to stop the fight *early* if he was losing...
That could only have saved him damage-when many were really afraid for him in that tiny ring, Foreman was a 40-0 Juggernaut with 37 KOs & easily destroyed the only 2 men who ever beat Ali, who was aging.
It could have also cost him the fight!
While the poster who wrote an analogy about Usyk being pounded by Joshua against the ropes for 8 rounds was *wrong*, since Ali was clearly ahead & in control of the fight where most of the assault was absorbed by arms & shoulders)...
Ali was still as he said "out on his feet" I believe twice against Foreman.
While few would have lasted through that beating, the "corruption" you discuss here, while technically that, is of a wholly different nature & category than something that is cheating to help your fighter win!
They were legal in the US
Ammonia capsules were legal to use until...I'm not sure when honestly, but I know there's a Eusebio Pedroza fight where they can be seen, so presumably into the 1980s at some point.
There are tons of athletes in many sports from the 60s and early 70s who were being given "vitamins" and "supplements" that were technically PEDs. Most athletes probably didn't even realize they were anything unusual or that it was kind of "cheating" since they were given by trainers or doctors.
Sounds like you've missed dozens of his other posts. There's a plethora as good or better.
The fight where Eusebio Pedroza was seen using an Ammonia capsule to smell between rounds, was his title losing bout against challenger Barry McGuigan on June 8 1985 in a nationally televised bout from London, England, on ABC's Wide World Of Sports. I recorded it and kept it, It was my very last day in the Air National Guard. I set the timer on my VCR. I received my honorable discharge, completing my 6 year commitment as a Sergeant.
PEDs = Performance Enhancing Drugs.
I don't think those drugs enhanced his performance.
If he used PEDs, they were probably the worst ones ever and should have asked for his money back ...
It’s not the first time that PED’s weren’t used optimally. It’s why he was so trim for the Holmes fight though.
He was on thyroid hormone, which is like a homeless man’s clenbuterol.
That is one of the reasons you pay for the best corner, to think quick and get you out for next round in best condition possible.
If Clay in fact needed to be chemically 'revived' and needed the time so his glove could be replaced and those did not occur and Cooper thus won, do you think Cooper would have taken his chance against Liston? the answer is no, Jim Wicks Coopers manager summed it up "I don't want my 'Enry fighting that mahogany wardrobe,".
Rumour says that Cooper said if was faced with Liston he would give it a good go, that because Cooper was the consummate professional ,but Mr Cooper generally went along with what Mr Wicks advised.
I do not think any of the actions/incidents in the Clay vs Cooper fight has any negative impact on the legitimacy of Alis career at all, no more than impact on legitimacy of career wins by Dempsey after being assisted back into the ring in Firpo fight, or Marciano not being disqualified for some of his illegal actions within the squared circle, a win is recorded end of.
Had to use Peds ????? ROFLMAO Angelo gave him a sniff of smelling salts, which was legal in the US. Clay was clowning & got caught with Enery's Ammer!! his lethal left hook.Was a tragedy Cooper cut so easily. Our Enery was a little more than Clay expected
Absolute Bull Feces !!!!!!