Muhammud Ali vs. Roy Jones

So we'll always find excuses for Ali, wasn't mature enough when he was knocked down twice or wanted to quit when in trouble? Right.

 

I can't believe this topic has reached 5 pages. It's a joke. Ali destroys Roy. Look at his fight vs London, there is no reasonable person that could say Roy is clearly faster. Ali has everything over Jones. Jones was knocked out by light-heavyweights, Ali knocked out George Foreman. Many here are young and impressionable and have not seen many great fighters and when they see the media and hype around Jones, they think hes the greatest. Hes a great fighter but nowhere near Ali or other all-time greats.

 

Jones has had nowhere near the media and hype around Ali, you are correct about that.

 

Wow, you're funny. Jones' large hype and media (music with 'gangsta' image, magazines, etc), combined with impressionable kids make the kids think hes a god of boxing. P4P greatest of all time, able to beat any fighter ever. Utter nonsense.
And much of Ali's media came from out of the ring actions, so toss me another one to laugh at.

 

Has anyone who's arguing for RJJ got a gameplan for him?

If he waits to counter he gets beat to the punch from the outside

If he fights from the outside he gets outreached

If he exchanges he gets ko'd

If he trys to beat Ali to the punch he has to eat punches to land his own because he has to get past a 82inch reach with his 72 inch reach

RJJ loses a wide UD if hes cautious or gets KO'd if hes aggressive

 

Thank you

 

Jones' large hype? What are you talking about? All those critical articles about him in the magazines and on internet? Some fools indeed believe in their ignorance about history that in the past everything was great, people were tougher and stronger, and things like that. Just how many times have I read that boxing is dieing, that modern generation is weak and far from great. In late 1700's they thought Mendoza & Co. were nowhere near as tough as Broughton or Slack. In early 1800's they praised Mendoza and Broughton and thought modern pugilists were weaklings. Second half of 19th century was considered the decay of pugilism. Then bareknucklers thought the Queensberry rules were unmanly and if you had to put someone like Corbett, Fitz, Jeffries and others in conditions in which the bareknucklers fought, they'd be crushed, they love money too much and are avoiding challenges. Come 1910's and Jeffries claims boxing is dying and is nowhere as good as had been in his time. And so on and so on. But Ali stood out for his hype much more than anyone else in history, not even Tyson ever got the hype Ali received, his epoch wasn't proclaimed Golden Age of heavyweights or anything like that. Not Leonard, not DLH, they were very far from having got the praise Ali has received in the last 40+ years. Windbag with no chin from a weak era suddenly became an icon not only for boxing followers but ever for people who never watched a single boxing match before.
And you gonna compare that to Jones who was only getting criticism about loving money too much and avoiding the challenges the last 10+ years? Spare me that BS, please.

 

This guy has gotta be joking. I don't even know what your point is. Your post doesn't make much sense. Are you siding with the point that Jones would win?

Windbag with no chin from a weak era suddenly became an icon not only for boxing followers but ever for people who never watched a single boxing match before.

Is that Jones? If so, thats good he became an icon, but to consider him the greatest fighter of all time is ignorance.

 

How many people claim Jones is the GOAT? I can probably count them on the fingers of one hand and there'll be spare fingers left. How many people claim Ali was the GOAT? Hundreds would be conservative prediction. Because he got hundreds times more hype from the media than Jones ever received.

 

How many books have been written about Jones, so far? None. Ali was getting books about him published even during early years of his career, and the number of books that have been published about him in total is more than about any other boxer in history.

 

Ali transcended the sport and proved to be among the greatest fighters of all time. I don't feel Jones has done that.
My point is that many people who are fans of Jones are young and fall for the hype around him consisting of the music and image, etc. Unfortunately, it seems to be growing. Someone just today said they rank him just between 11-20 all time at heavyweight. For what? He beat Ruiz. Insane.

 

When did Ali quit ?

Wanting to quit and quitting are two different things.

In fact, it's the 'wanting to quit but not quitting' that defines part of his greatness.

It's analgous to the relationship between bravery and fear.

You can't have bravery without fear, If a man is completely unafraid to do something, then doing that thing is not a measure of bravery. He might be an idiot.

It's when a man is afraid of something, but disregards his fears and does it anyway, we call him brave.

Similarly, when a boxer considers quitting (a reasonable thought when you're in with LIston and have been rendered near blind) but doesn't quit, that is when he develops character.

Ali took adversity and learned from it, both inside and outside the ring.

And the hype you refer to was mostly due to his political and social stances rather than his boxing. The actual boxing hype was no more and probably less than that around Floyd and Oscar and Roy. There was no internet in Ali's day and the media was nowhere near as well developed.

BTW, I noticed you mentioned someone as having 'no chin'. Were you refering to Ali?

 

People who praise Jones only do that based on what they saw him do in the ring, not because of the media hype (which has been mostly critical about him). They say they haven't seen anyone else do the things he did in the ring, they haven't seen any other boxer as talented as Jones. Both statements are quite possibly true. Nobody else dominated it quite like Jones, beating 17 champs or titlists with ease while travelling across 4 weight divisions, while being argueably P4P #1 for 9 straight years (last 3 years while being on the decline).

 

Why don't you post some contemporary opinions about that event, what people thought about him wanting to quit when in trouble?
You think it was Ali's own decision to continue that fight, he overcame his own fears rather than having been barely persuaded by his own corner?

Luckily for Ali, I'd say, that there was no internet. As for media not being near as well developed, that's a funny statement. The press was talking about Ali tens of times more than they were speaking about Jones. The most "outrageous" thing Jones has dared to do was sing a song 'the greatest of all time', while refusing to answer about his placement in history whenever anyone asked him this question, he always answers he doesn't think about that and leaves that to others to estimate his placement.

The guy who was dropped by Banks and Cooper was considered to have no chin. So yeah. During his prime years he got dropped twice by much inferior opponents with no big punch.

 

Senya, as much as I agree with you in the rest of that post, I have to disagree here.

Cooper could punch. He wasn't a top-notch fighter with an A+ delivery system, but he definately could bang if his opponent was there to be caught. Ali's fault in getting dropped then is not that he had a weak chin, but that he let himself get caught by a guy like Cooper, who wasn't exactly a sharpshooter.

Now, Banks, on the other hand...