Muscular fighters losing their snap

Actually...It would be interesting to do a comparison between a composite conditioning routine from 1940s-70s heavyweight boxers, and a composite conditioning routine for fighters in Johnson's era.

I think you'd find a lot more variation among Johnson era boxers. More weight training and wrestling; more diet quackery; many different types of exercises that no longer exist. You might not even be able to create a composite at all

 

Dickie Ryan fought a former Mr Olympia bodybuilder. Dickie stopped him in 2 with a shot to the liver. Mr Olympia was swinging his arms really hard at first but Ryan, not known for his defense, didn't take much damage.
I think that guys like Tyson, Morrison and Holyfield were lifting more than training during the 90s and using contributing concoctions. They entered the ring looking "ripped" and everyone was impressed but their wind...
If you are training for violence- in the ring, on the street or in prison- you train endurance. When you get tired you get hurt.

 

A man who is diced to the bone can of course have good wind don’t you think? I can’t credit Norton with much but great stamina is something I’d say Jersey Joe was a specimen too and had plenty of stamina. I’ve actually been told that stamina and your chin are essentially the same thing, tired guys get KO’d fresh ones keep there hands up and move. But it’s all up in the air I don’t know much.

 

A guy like Norton was genetically well muscled and defined - not necessarily huge volume.

Therefore, his natural all round athleticism (well documented in High School - see The Norton Rule) was not compromised by any artificial muscle gain training.

However, it did appear as if Ken was beginning to add some weight trained bulk toward the latter stages of his career.

Post career, Norton did lament having not done weight work while he was still active as a boxer.

To an extent, training in the gym/ring for what you are actually looking to specifically achieve in the ring begets more naturally appropriate, better integrated and purpose built muscles.

 

To be fair, I doubt a competitive long distance runner or professional bag-puncher (which, oddly, existed) would have done any better against Ryan, even though both of these exercises are helpful to boxers.

I assume you're not saying weight training is useless; just that it should be subordinated to boxing training rather than vice-versa?

 

Ibeabuchi looked like a bodybuilder, but got around the same punch stats as the FOTC combatants in three fewer rounds. Vitali was weight-trained and muscular as well, and regularly put up high punchstat numbers. You could probably look up a few other modern guys and find volumes comparable to, or above, the 1970s standards. For whatever it's worth.

 

He’s a liar. Norton is a total liar. Seriously if you buy him never touching a weight… it’s really, really obvious if you can find me a natural man a boxer who never worked out with weights, weighed as much as Norton and was as tall pre 1950s I’ll travel to wherever you live and give you the keys to my car. If you say McVey or Jeffries you’re wrong before you say either.

 

is impossible to prove someone never lifted weights.
is trying to prove a negative

Norton was 210 and 6'3

 

is the same stuff. but if boxer needed to heavy weight training to forcing the building of the mass of muscle quick. then he will have to continue to do this. to maintenance same muscle. the ' load & volume " " of weight training. result in fatigue & stiff ache. is inflammation. pumped and sore tired muscle. for much of time. also increased risk injury. & this is why so many are 'muscle bound' with 'no snap' because they cannot stop the weight lifts for so many weeks/months without loss the mass. seen this so many times. brings them lethargy.
yes you might read about " phase training' ' or periodized to time this (i rarely see it). but still the boxer without this need is at advantages.

 

LOL, preemptive strikes on poor old Jeff and Slammin’ Sammy McVey, culled out by way of height, the average of which has increased simply by way of better nutrition alone?

Pray tell why should they be precluded?

I guess pre 50s is meant to cull out Big Cat Williams also - do you believe Cleve also lifted weights in any significant way? Like Norton, Williams had good genetics and his own arms were listed as 15 1/2” - subject to the accuracy of such a listing of course.

5’ 10” McVey was ripped with muscle volume that was acceptably natural (by natural I’m including some enhancement via labouring as well as genetics). They give Sam 16” arms and via the optics that seems fair.

Now Kenny was similar in definition and volume. Natural but perhaps some assist. Early Norton was given 15 1/2”’arms, later promoted to 16”.

Starting late in the pros, Norton floated around 205-212 lbs I think only going beyond that weight when he reached early to mid 30s - fairly normal weight gain - still well defined but not quite as cut.

I guess if you ask anyone if they’ve done weights as it relates to their sport they subjectively decide what constitutes meaningful weight work or not.

Meaning, it’s highly likely that weights have been picked up at one time or another - as is the case with most of us but perhaps not as effectively as a truly dedicated weight program.

As I said, I don’t preclude Norton having gotten into the weights in a semi serious way toward the latter stages of his career.

For some serious mass/weight/muscle gain via working with weight, look to his son Ken Jr who at 6’2” ran around at about 254 lbs.

Want some tall guys…..here are Louis’ sparring partners that he used, I think, in prep for Carnera.

Not too shabby, eh? They could’ve enhanced their appearance that much more with a few more stomach crunches but that’s not weight work per se.

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Btw, what type of car you got? Manual or auto transmission is fine by me. Half a tank of fuel would be nice too, thanks.

 

So you’ve got nothing? Pre 50s was to cull potential steroid use actually. McVey, Williams and Jeffries all did a form of strength training/weight lifting.

 

are you looking for boxer who is same height & weight as Norton?

 

I’m telling you that because he’s a once off in an era ripe with roids, weight training taking off etc he’s a liar. Find me another one before the 50s, Williams strength trained, Mcvey and Jeffries too. Norton on the other hand claims he never touched a weight and strictly stuck to boxing…mind you being a much, much more muscular guy.

 

Norton had good looking physique. not such big mass for tall athlete. just is bone structure & muscle insertions. & ratio. produce classic beauty physique aesthetic. is rare to have all this. but he had it. apparently Ali was jealous because he was not used to this: a lot of the young women cannot keep eye off Ken Norton when both him & Ali in room. upstage Ali a little, just with body. LOL

 

he's not so big. you jealous of his sexy body too. LOL.

honest doubt he lift when he was boxing. but might have done some bit when he was athlete in school college & maybe some in marines. little. probable some bit. but as professional with Eddie Futch & Bill Slayton. no. unlikely to be doing weights.& weight training for boxing not really a big thing in 1970s. most trainers were dead against it & most boxers were do whatever trainer said.