Mustafa Hamshos Chin - Fact Or Fiction?

BUt you admit you didn't see the first fight, so how can you question his chin. Maybe you should learn the facts so your question doesn't look so stupid by saying you saw the second and wander about it. Are you one of those who learn a little about something then stand as an expert c66554ks6655ker?

 

I never thought that killing someone meant a boxer must have had great punching power, in fact I think quite the opposite.

Scypion did have a great knockout record at the time, but he hit Willie Classen with everything except the ring stool for 10 rounds to finally keep him down. That's often more damaging than being KO'd in the first round by a one punch knockout.

 

I'd say that's a bit of a stretch. He didn't stop anyone notable other than Willie Classen who was coming off KO losses to John LoCicero, who was said to have one of the hardest right hands in boxing, and Tony Sibson, a great left hooker. Sure, a couple of posters here have said that he was the hardest hitter to back up their views on Hamsho's chin but I don't see any actual proof of his punching prowess and I've viewed Scypion's fights.

 

It's still the poster making claims unless I actually see the proof of these boxing publications.

Duodenum is a good poster but I always only believe it when I see it. I'm not seeing it with Scypion. As I said, people just buy into the myth due to the fighter having killed someone. That doesn't prove their punching power by any means.

Which is more impressive, Sibson taking out Classen in 2, or Scypion stopping Classen in the 10th? Outside of the stoppage over Classen, Scypion didn't KO anybody who could fight. Sibson did.

Classen was not even supposed to fight anymore but he took one last payday. It was a tragedy.

 

Right you are sir, and the onus is on me to go back into my boxing magazine archives to identify a specific issue of whatever publication it was where this determination was released. In this particular case, that is the September 1981 Big Book of Boxing Special Section article titled, "RATING THE PUNCHERS: The hardest hitters in each division."

On page 32, their middleweight entry is Wilford Scypion. "'The best right hand in the middleweight division,' according to Joe Bruno, boxing editor for Newsworld." "...stopped steel chinned Fermin Guzman in stunning fashion." "Hamsho said that Wilfred (their typo, not mine) was the hardest puncher he ever fought" (This issue was published after Scypion hammered out his ten round decision over Curtis Parker.) Scypion's most impressive knockouts were listed as KO 10 Willie Classen, KO 7 Fermin Guzman, and KO 4 Willie Ray Taylor.

Honorable Mention: Fully Obel, Sammy Nesmith, Marvin Hagler, Dwight Davison (who later won this same award in the March 1983 Big Book of Boxing), Alex Ramos, Bobby Czyz and John LoCicero. (For those of you who are wondering, Tony Ayala, Jr. won this award in the Junior Middleweight division in both those issues.)

 

I believe it now. :good

However I still have my doubts and must question Scypion's status as the best middleweight puncher at the time. As I said in my first post on this thread, I believe Hamsho's "chin" was overrated on hindsight and certainly Scypion's punching power was.

For example the "steel-chinned" Guzman was KO'd 14 times. Willie Ray Taylor ended up with a modest record of 9 wins and 18 losses, 12 of which by KO. Of course this is admittedly just BoxRec study, I know next to nothing about these two fighters, but it doesn't seem like either were notable victories by any means.

I know about Willie Classen though and have seen his fights, as well as Scypion's. In my mind Classen should not have been in the ring with Scypion yet he still bravely took Scypion's best for 10 rounds. LoCicero and Sibson had previously iced him in impressive fashion in consecutive knockout losses. Al Bernstein claimed during the Caveman Lee-John LoCicero broadcast that LoCicero had the hardest right hand in the middleweight division.

 

Cheers. Granted, it's a paltry addition to your monumental contributions in areas like footage provided, but the least I could do in light of all you've brought to the fore.

Bernstein's appraisal of LoCicero may well have factored into his gaining honorable mention on that same listing of power punching middleweights, but of course he didn't actually get hit by Wilford in competition like Hamsho was. Page 26 of that 1981 issue carried the article preceding the one on divisional power punchers, "Scypion pounds Parker: THE MIDDLEWEIGHT OF THE FUTURE" Wilford's win was timed impeccably, and those ratings had him listed as number five in the division.

Their ratings of who the top puncher in each division was could sometimes be a little eclectic and certainly subject to vigorous debate, but from their perspective this was clearly preferable to predictable dullness, and I'm sure it boosted Weston's sales a bit.

 

I'd say you contribute to these forums as much as anybody. Sure I upload a few boxing videos every now and then but my perspective due to being from Finland is not the same as someone's who has been more in touch with the US or UK boxing scenes over the years.

Hamsho said Scypion was the hardest hitter he fought but in my view this might actually go against the notion that Hamsho had a great chin. Scypion was not a proven puncher for me yet he is about the best hitter Hamsho faced outside of maybe Hagler/Czyz. Walking through Scypion is not the same as walking through Hurricane Carter or even Tony Sibson in my opinion. This based on what I've seen and read, of course I can't say anything for sure because I was never hit by any of them.

 

The man's chin was for real...he was rugged and strong as a bull....for pete's sake, his ruggedness was just about all he had..how do you think he made it as far as he did...with his Willie Pep-like boxing skills?

 

DUO-I have almost all the Ring's Big Books, International's, World, Boxing Illustrated and Boxing Today, Boxing Digest, etc. from 1970-about 1985, The KOs I have from the second issue w/ Duran on the cover to about 1986, when the sport kind of was going down in my mind. The 1 Ko I never got was the very first one w/ Leonard and his gaptoothed smile in the cover. Do you have that one? And where can I find it. They used to have long lists of great fight mag deals on ebay, but now it's just one mag at a time. What do you think. And do you notice how in all the early 70s mags, they covered "Little Red" from the beginning of his career like he was a star? Those old mags are still great reads and I still collect them, but now only up to 1983, and like I said, I have most of all from 70-then.:boxxdesk