MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON

That's why I cast my vote for Monzon.

 

Mind Stonehands. He's talking about the early-mid 90's Jones. Not the weight drained version who was KO'd by Tarver and later by Johnson. I will freely admit, Jones unorthodox style wasn't effective when he slowed down and his punch resistance evaporated quickly before our very eyes over a three fight span. When Jones fell off the cliff, he was past his prime.

Jones never had the basic fundementals. Hands low, jumping in with lead left hooks, etc. His whole game was based on speed and reflexes. And when at the top of his game, he was rather sublime.

Without doubt the quickest fighter to grace a pair of gloves. And arguably the most talented.

I'm not sure Monzon's straight-up and down robotic style, although effective, and slow handspeed would overcome what Jones brings to he table.

 

Ray Robinson versus Carlos Monzon. Two incredible fighters. Carlos Monzon deservedly gets alot of support on this forum. His record speaks for itself. When I think of Monzon, I see one of the most efficient fighters ever. A fighter that used physical advantages in height, strength, and a brilliant boxing IQ to set the pace at which he wanted to fight. I have not seen every Monzon fight. The fights I've seen are Briscoe 2, Boutier1, Benvenuti 1&2, Moyer, Griffith 1&2, Tonna, and Boggs.In most every fight, Monzon ALWAYS dictated pace. Monzon decided when to advance, when to retreat.
When I think of Robinson, I see one of the most dynamic fighters ever. The natural gifts of speed, fluidity, and agruably the finest repetoire of combination punching and power in boxing history.
Some fight huh?
These are also two facinating individuals as well. Both were hardened by their circumstances in life. What does this have to do with boxing? It has everything to do with boxing. Ray Robinson was brought up poor in segregated America. Carlos Monzon was brought up in poverty in Argentina. Their backgrounds forged them into the fighters they would become.
In my opinion, I think Robinson's footspeed is the key to the fight. If Monzon comes to Robinson in the fight, it's to Ray's advantage. Monzon would be better served to fight at a distance and dictate with the left jab, mixing right hands to the body. Monzon needs to stand tall and box off the backfoot, but Robinson at 5' 11" is not short. If Ray can force the action in mid-range by countering Monzon's left jabs with right hands....and going to the body when Monzon fires his right hands...He could create a pace Monzon would not be comfortable with. I like Robinson, because in these exchanges he gets there faster and with power. The left hook would be the primary punch from the outside and the inside ranges as well....I do not see a stoppage....not even close on either side. These two are the best.
Lastly in the documentary "Bright Lights and Dark Shadows" Ray's sister asked "What were you thinking after he butted you, and the referee said he was going to stop it?" (Turpin)
Ray said "Do or die...it was... do or die"
Robinson UD

 

You really think so?

 

Damn this is pretty close so far.

 

Tyson was the man. :yikes

 

I am one who subscribes to the belief that Carlos Monzon was the best of all middleweight champions and that he would have been too much for the great Sugar Ray Robinson. I have no doubt about this, in that Monzon was head and shoulders above any middleweight Robinson ever fought, and had the style to counter Robinson's most effectively. It would be the case of the less flashier of the two guys just negating Robinson's best for 15 rounds and winning a clean decision. Monzon, in his less than picturesque way would be a puzzle Robinson could not solve. It would be Monzon's boxing mind and underrated cleverness,combined with his toughness overcoming Sugar Ray's spectacular natural gifts. Monzon wouldn't have tried to knock out Robinson, but he would have methodically and coldly countered the Sugarman's best efforts for a relatively dull 15 round decision. People are starting to realize that Monzon was one of the really great ones of boxing history.

 

Agreed. You put it far more succinctly than I did. Very well put.

 

They are my two finest 160lbers ever...

Robinson is better overal (at 160) IMO, but styles make fights, thus I went for Monzon

Monzon WU15 9-6

 

Watched some of monzons fights v benvenuti 1,emille griiffith 1 & 2 and tony licata,manassa is indeed right,the young version of monzon in the early seventies is indeed faster and more powerful than the version that bested valdez twice,he also went to the body a little more,looked more agressive and seemed to keep his hands up higher...One noticeable point is that he seemed to be bigger than all of his opponents and seemed very good at tying his man up.One of the ATG welters in jose napoles was trounced physically by monzon,a study in how to deal with a great smaller opponent,hagler,robinson,leonard and others take note,,,
The more i watch of this man and study his record the more i am convinced that he is definately the best middle of all times,maybe someone could make a case for greb,but thats it...

 

SRR is horribly overated above 147 lbs?atsch I cannot even fathom this statement! At the very least, SRR is considered in the top three in the entire history of the sport of boxing! However sir, you are entitled to your opinion.
We do disagree on the outcome of this middleweight final. I see Robinson being more than problematic for Monzon in the exchanges in a somewhat slow paced fight. I think both would definitely respect one another. Robinson would have to respect Monzon for his size and strength and punching accurancy. Monzon would have to respect Robinson for his speed and power. Robinson is much more offensively dynamic than anyone Monzon has ever faced.(that includes Valdez from what I've seen)
I give credit to Monzon, in my opinion he could beat anyone at 160 lbs on a given night problably > 95% of the time. (except Robinson)
But to state SRR is horribly overated?
Ridiculous.:fire

 

Oh, you mean the one who LaMotta was pecking with his stubby jab and beating on the scorecards until he tired? Gotcha. Better change my prediction to Monzon TKO12 then :good

 

Or the Monzon who had nine draws against taxi-drivers and goat herders?
Robinson still by UD:tong

 

Difference is, that Monzon wasn't in his prime. The Robinson I'm talking about was apparently at his middleweight peak.