My 1950-1955 Heavyweight styles mini article....Please Enjoy

Very nice read Suzie.


I have two questions:

1. What is your rationale to rate Valdes #9? I agree that records can be deceiving, but in Valdes' case, the 1-7 isn't. He has one great win over Charles, but other than that, he lost every time he stepped up without exception. And it's not like those came when he was old; his peak coincided perfectly to make an as high ranking as possible on a list during this time frame. I would rate LaStarza, Satterfield and Layne higher.


2. More of a trivial one, are you sure that picture of Joe Louis is from 1950? I've always thought that pic was of him in the early 40's, in his prime. Unless, of course this picture was taken as a commercial for hair implants.

 

This is a keeper SQ. I've added it to my Favorites.

 

Thanks, SQ. Very intersting, very good to read and very appreciated. Good work.

 

Great work Suzie

 

Great definintion of Marciano and others...50's was a tough era..skill, experience...ring smarts and power....and this guy

Rocky Marciano- "Brockton Blockbuster". What is there to say, one of the greatest punchers in heavyweight history. His Military like two fisted assault where he threw punches that landed anywhere and everywhere was one of the most physically damaging things ever seen in a ring. Rocky perhaps ruined more fighters than any fighter in boxing history, because of his style. The Effort the Rocky put into every punch he threw was unbelievable, like the "energy of an armor peircing bullet." Roland Lastarza chipped bones and got broken blood vessels in his arms trying to keep a high gaurd vs the rock, 6'4 carmine vingo was paralysed for nearly a month after getting knocked unconsious by rocky. One right hand "sheered rex laynes front teeth off at the nubs." Bernie Reynolds was lifted in the air by one rocky right hand "his shoulders and feet touched the canvas at the same time."(new york times) Rockys punchrate was what made him so devastating, in round 6 vs archie moore he could literally be seen throwing non stop powerpunches for 1:45 seconds straight, it was an unbelievable thing to think of accomplishing unless u actually saw the film...poor archie moore and his rope a dope had no idea how to stop the madman. In round 15 after 14 gruelling rounds with ezzard charles, rocky threw an amazing 96 punches in a blistering round most of them power punches. Rocky had great punching technique, every punch he threw he got his full body into them he threw them with perfect torque from his body, he also was an expert at punching out of crouch. he would slip and roll all the way around and then come up with a leaping left hook. Both his left hook and right hand packed one punch power, and his combination punching usually consistented off 3-4 punch wide variety of punches, but he would follow the combo up with a volley of one after one power shots making him a very hard fighter to defend against. His one punch knockout over jersey joe walcott still remains one of the greatest one punch kayos of all time. joe louis was in awe of rockys one punch power, moore was in awe of rockys non stop punching, roland lastarza was in awe of rocky marcianos punching anywhere and everywhere. it was all of the above that contributed to him being one of the greatest punchers of all time. Accomplishments wise, Rocky arguebably knocked out the top rated heavyweights of his era more decisevly and cleanly than any heavyweight in history along with mike tyson, joe louis, and sonny liston. Rockys record against ring magazine top 10 was 11-0(10 kos) an amazing knockout percentage against world class fighters.

 

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Suzie, you make a great contribution to this forum with articles like this. I really enjoyed reading it.

Thanks for your efforts in sharing this with us.

Here's something I would be interested in hearing your, and other forum members, opinion on:

Of the main contenders of the period that Rocky didn't fight; list them in order as to who would have the best chance of giving Rocky a lot of trouble (I am confident you won't pick any to actually beat the Rock)

I would have liked to see Rocky fight Valdez instead of Cockel. I think it would have given Rocky fans a greater legacy fight, and more ammuntion for Rocky fans when their hero is criticised for not facing big HWs and big punchers.

Rocky himself was unmotivated to put in his usual hellish training for Cockel, and it showed in his out of character sloppy performance.

I don't think Valdez would have won, but it would have been a better fight IMHO.

To Rocky fans, this is not a knock on the great man...I am a big Rocky fan myself. I realise he faced a lot of top contenders and gave the most deserving ones rematches. But of the men he didn't fight, who would you have liked to see him fight, and how do you see those fights panning out?

 

"Against Great Opposition, Valdes put up the most impressive performances out of the 7-12 guys you mention above."

I would dispute this. I think Layne did the best against Great Opposition. He defeated Walcott as well as Charles and I would rate Layne's win over Walcott as the most impressive any of these 7-12 fighters scored. Walcott was prime enough to have beaten Johnson that year and would beat Charles for the title the next year. Layne also defeated Charles coming directly off the 4th Walcott fight, although it was a very controversial decision, when Charles had to consider the Layne fight as crucial to reestablishing his championship credentials. Charles fought Valdes before Valdes was an established contender and with Charles sceduled to fight Johnson in three weeks. I think Charles might have been looking past Valdes to Johnson and took him lightly. Charles himself intimated as much and asked for a rematch, but Valdes refused.

Bottom line--Layne defeated two top twenty heavyweights at or near their primes. Not many contenders can say as much.

By the way, anticipating the argument that Walcott took Layne lightly--perhaps to some extent, but Layne had wins over top men, including Turkey Thompson. There is no excuse for Walcott not considering him dangerous. Valdes, on the other hand, simply came out of nowhere.

Layne was 2-2 against Walcott and Charles. Valdes was 1-3 against Charles, Moore, and Johnson. I think Layne did better.

On head to head between Layne and Valdes, who knows? I think, though, that if Layne had never fought either Walcott or Satterfield, many would argue that there is no way he could beat them and if Satterfield never fought Valdes, many would probably judge that there was no way he survives Valdes' power, only it didn't work that way.

 

"List in order those who might have given Rocky a lot of trouble."

1---Harold Johnson
All by himself in the #1 slot, then there is a big dropoff to

2---Nino Valdes
3---Bob Satterfield
4---Bob Baker

Walcott, Charles, Louis, and Moore were clearly better than this group, other than to some extent Johnson.

 

Well here's how I see them doing against todays era

1. Marciano vs. Wlad. Marciano KO
2. Walcott vs. Peter-Walcott late stoppage, otherwise wide UD.
3. Charles vs. Chagaev-Charles by UD
4. Moore vs. Valuev-Tough fight to pick due to size, but I'll go with the Mongoose by UD
5. Povetkin-Johnson. I tentatively pick Povetkin.
6. Louis vs. Ibragimov-Louis by UD.
7. Henry vs. Maskaev-Henry by KO
8. Baker vs. Virchis. Virchis by KO
9. Valdez vs. Ruiz. Pickem fight, Valdez has the edge in power but Ruiz might be able to steal a win like against Golota.
10. Layne vs. Arreola-Layne by decapitation.

By the way Suzie, after reading this I decided to make a similar article regarding 1985-1990. How would you rate these 3 for their work in the time period, Spinks, Holyfield, and Witherspoon? Spinks has the best 2 wins over Holmes, but they were his only quality HW wins, Holyfield had his stoppage win over Dokes, KO of shot Thomas, and OK wins over Stewart and Rodriques. Witherspoon's only loss was to Bonecrusher for this time period, but beat a fair slew of fighters like Tubbs, Smith himself, Bruno, and an ok James Broad.

 

A verry fine article.

I hope that at some point yu will write something similar about the little known heavyweights of the 40s like Lee Q Murray.

Perhaps one day you might even get a book together sice you are becoming quite a specialist in these eras.

 

Thanks for your considered opinions Suzi and Fogey.

I cannot disagree, as my knowledge of these guys that Rocky didn't fight is not great enough.

However, if I could add one more opponent to Rocky's resume, I still think that Valdez would be a better legacy win for Rocky, as many today criticise him for not fighting enough hard punching big heavies; and Rocky proved himself against lots of the smaller, slicker opponents.

On the other hand, why am i worried about what these detractors say about one of the greatest champions of all time...Rocky Marciano.