My All-Time Top Ten Heavyweight List

My list is the right list

Well, judging a resume is not even near as much speculation as a hypothetical h2h match-up between fighters of different eras because the quality of a fighter in his era and his accomplishments there can be judged objectivly - especially if most of the experts have a similar oppinion. That holds much more water than taking h2h into account.

 

It is possible to determine on resume if someone like Joe Louis was defending against the best of his time or not, so I don't think it is pure speculation. Speculation would be if you dismiss a fighter on a h2h basis or claim the best of one era are clearly inferior to average or ordinary fighters of another era, and therefore give one fighter extra credit for fighting in this rather than that era.

 

No it's not nearly as much speculation but a good part of it is still speculation that's my point.

 

Your top 5 are identicle to those of Tracy Callis incidentaly.

 

Jim Jeffries can't be ranked higher than Mike Tyson. Jeffries had very few recorded matches, and most of them came against undersized men, when contrasted to the men who Tyson fought ( who by the way were larger than himself. )

Additionally, while Jeffries won the title with very few matches, Tyson took the crown at only 20 years of age, and defended it more times before losing it. You can talk all you want about Tyson's comp and how bad you may think it was, but the fact is, there were no 1-2 Jack finnigans on it either. Tyson at least has claim to beating men like Spinks, Tucker, Berbick, Thomas, Tubbs and Ruddock ( later ). Were the versions of Corbett, Peter and Fitszimmons, whom Jeffries fought better than those guys? Some guys here will tell you they were, but in this case, I have to take the role of naysayer.

 

Tyson lost all of his legacy fights...Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis.

While he was great for a short period of time 1986-1989, we saw foreshadowing of his aura fading as early as the first Bruno fight. Tyson main weapon was scaring lesser guys like Spinks scared stiff. That and great power and speed.

I think Tyson is the #1 all time guy vs teir two contenders, but against the very best, he never did it. Tyson could have fought Bowe or Foreman by the way. There was plenty of talk about the match.

I think the best champions have to have some heart and comeback in them. Tyson never came back to turn the tides in any of his fights. He was also a bad fouler, and seemed quick to surrender when things were not going his way. There are zero cream puff on all time great lists, which is why I feel Tyson is just outside the top ten. Having said that, he might lay out some old timers flat that I rate ahead of him.

 

Tyson's period of dominance against good opp sees him above Jefferies in my opinion and I agree with mr magoo's post (though I do rate jefferies extremely highly amongst the pre-Louis heavies).

Tyson at #8, Jefferies at #12 IMO.

Here's my list:

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
5. Marciano
6. Liston
7. Frazier
8. Tyson
9. Johnson
10. Holyfield

 

Douglas was not a legacy fight. It wasn't hyped and it was viewed as just a setup, had Tyson knocked him out no one would care about it. Faulting Tyson for losing to Lewis is as bad as faulting Ali for losing to Spinks.

 

I fault both.

 

Do you fault Ali for losing to Spinks? Also, Lewis was 10x the fighter of Leon and much better than Norton too, who also beat Ali but people overlook that.

 

Yep, not much though. Ali never ever should lose to a novize like Spinks. Tyson had more left than Ali. He tried it in the first round but gave up trying afterwards when he saw that he has no chance. Also in my oppinion Tyson always loses to Lewis.

 

... but Tyson was a puncher and when a fighter has top level raw power that's the very last thing to go, whearas Ali's legs were more or less shot. Tyson had a few good rounds left in him by '02, but Lewis stemmed the early tide, bust him up and beat the **** out of him. Obviously primes it'd be far more of a contest, but Tyson in my mind wasn't quite as past it as Ali was for Spinks, Lewis just took the fighting heart out of him after the first few rounds. Plus Neon Leon wasn't that special a pro anyway.

 

The Douglas fight was not a legacy match. It was a stay-busy fight, before meeting Holyfield in June of that year. Douglas was a mere opponent who he underestimated ( sort of like Klitschko vs Sanders ). The Lewis fight was not a legacy match either ( though it could have been had he won it ), but he was about 12-15 years past his prime by that point. Tyson and Holyfield were both out of prime when they fought each other.

Jim Jeffries was an all time great who is worth of such recognition, and I have no problem with his legacy. If we're honest however, Tyson accomplished more by age 21 than Jeff did in his whole career....Sorry, but that's how I see it..