My attempt at a top 50 heavyweights and some honorable mentions.

Apologies, but we did a top 25 recently, and I thought I might like to try to go to 50. Let me admit that this got VERY hard after about 29, as there were a lot of guys with big peaks and valleys. So I threw in some honorable mentions that were considered.

My #1 Criteria is who they beat. After that, titles held, statistics, notable non-statistical achievements (upsets, comebacks) and of course, some purely subjective perceptions. Losses and negative impact on the sport drag them down, and I freely admit to era bias, as I don't think a lot of the guys who denied black contenders (even the black ones), or guys who fought a lot of blacksmiths and circus strong men. THIS IS NOT A HEAD-TO-HEAD LIST. Some eras may be better than others, but a fighter has to be judged by what he accomplished in his time.

Fire away with all criticism. This is for fun. Especially let me know who I missed.

Thing is saying the post is too long, so let me do my honorable mentions first:

HONORABLE MENTIONS/ALSO CONSIDERED, IN ALPHABETICAL

Jimmy Braddock
Upset of the half century, but VERY, very thin after the Baer win, with maybe a split decision over Farr being his second best win. Lots of losses on the record.

Lamon Brewster
Big win against Wlad followed by a credible reign, but got a gift against Meehan, and when he fell apart, he fell fast and hard.

Tommy Burns
Win over Hart is about it. Gets some consideration for having the balls to fight Jack Johnson. Best win after Hart is LHW O'Brien, and defended against some of the worst.

Frank Childs
"Colored" title champ. Hard to get info on how good he actually was. Seems to have lost most of his big fights.

Joe Choynski
An interesting footnote. Never won the belt, but knocked Johnson cold, drew with both Jefferies and Fitzimmons, and had a NC against Corbett.

Jimmy Flynn
The controversial Dempsey victory, and seems to be highly ranked on Boxrec, but I don't get why.

Lem Franklin
A good black fighter who did not get a shot against Louis. Wins against Jimmy Bivins, Lee Savold, Abe Simon,

George Godfrey (19-37)
Record is not equal to his legend, but he wore the cuffs a lot and people who saw him thought he was great, including Dempsey

George Godfrey (79-96)
Considered as a "colored" champ, but seems to have lost most of his big fights.

Marvin Hart
Controversial win over Johnson. Jack Root. Peter Maher. Gus Ruhlin. Joe Choynski. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien. Would be on the list expect that credible evidence has been presented that the Johnson win is shakey.

Ike Ibeabucchi
Tua and Byrd. What if....?

Denver Ed Martin
"Colored titled champ." Seems to have lost more than he won.

Oliver McCall
Beat Lennox Lewis, but I watched that live and consider it a Don King stoppage (more importantly, the color team took issue). Also beat weak champs Seldon, Damiani, and MAskaev, but, balanced that out with losses to bums (Joey Christjohn), Cruisers (Norris), Fringe contenders (Hunter), and had 14 losses over all.

Lee Q. Murray
Another of the best black fighters that Joe Louis could not fight, bested Turkey Thompson and Jimmy Bivins.

Jerry Quarry
Wins over Patterson, Foster, Shaver, Lyle put a lot of ABC champs to shame. Maybe the next best of the 70's after the fab four.

Leon Spinks
Yeah, I know, but he was undisputed champ (until the WBC striped him) with a win over a legend, and, after losing the belt, climbed his way back to a second shot, and then fought for a cruiserweight belt. Not a bad career all things considered.

Pinklon Thomas
One of the better ABC champs with wins over Witherspoon and Weaver

Tony Tucker
One of the better ABC champs with wins over Douglas and McCall

Jess Willard- Johnson knockout is about it, but what a knockout!

 

And, the top 50:


50. David Haye
His cruiserweight wins would count in a lot of eras, and Valuev, Ruiz, Maccarelli. Barret, Mormeck, Fragomeni and Chisora make a fine record, but some embarrassing losses and loses points for making a pain out of himself with his frequent pull-outs. Notable for providing a credible rival for Wlad.

50. Alexander Povetkin
Not a real champs with his WBA "regular" belt, but wins over Chageav, Byrd, Rahmen, Huck, and Chambers make him notable. One of WladKlit's best opponents.

49. Michael Moorer
The big win against Holy, but thereafter it gets thin, and there were some embarrassing losses, including Foreman.

48. Turkey Thompson
One of the guys who could not get a shot at Joe Louis. Lee Q. Murray, Jimmy Bivins, Arturo Godoy, Henry Cooper, Elmer Ray were all vanquished.

47. Joe Jeanette
Another of the great black fighters not given a chance by Johnson . Managed one win against Langford (though he usually lost or drew), a couple against Mcvea, and beat Carpentier. The really eye-popping wins aren't there, but a lot of that had to do with opportunity, and it had to be worth something that Dempsey climbed out of the ring rather than fight him.

46. Tyson Fury
Could go way up or way down. He's the guy who unseated Wladdy, and, at the time of this writing is still undefeated. Very thin after Wlad.

44. Haseem Rahmen
Sparked Lewis and has a good follow-up win over Corrie Sanders, but LOTS of embarrassing losses drag him down.

43. Elmer Ray
Another of the best black fighters that Joe Louis could not fight. Wins over Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, Lee Savold, and Henry Cooper.

42. Michael Spinks
3-1 as a heavy, but the man who unseated Larry Holmes. I think we can forgive his crushing at the hands of prime Tyson.

41. David Tua
Never won the belt, but beat four champs in Moorer, Maskaev, Rahmen, and Ruiz. This is the guy that should have the reputation that guys like Shaver and Cleveland Williams enjoy.

40. Anthony Joshua
Obviously he could go up or down from here. If he retired, today, this is where I would have him.

39. Johnny Ruiz
Win over Holyfield, Tucker, Rahmen, McLine, Golota, Johnson, and a number of contenders, but the Tua and Jones loses are humiliating and drag him down.

38. Primo Carnera
Yes, he started out his career as a fraud, but he worked hard to improve, and there is no evidence that the Sharkey win was a set-up (Sharkey maintained until he died that he just got caught). Add wins against Schaaf, Nuesal, Loughran, Uzcudun, Levinsky, Stribling, and a dodgy DQ against Godfrey, and it is actually pretty obvious that he became, if not a good fighter, than one who knew how to use his great size. Sorry Haters.

37. Buster Douglas
Lighting in a battle with the best upset ever over Mike Tyson. Unfortunately, he lost to guys like Ferguson, and even managed to draw against the awful Tangstad. Who knows what he could have been if he tried every night like he did in Tokyo.

36. John L. Sullivan
Deserves some mention as the first champ to fight under Queensbury rules, and the first national sports figure, but most of his opponents were blacksmiths, local strongmen and the like. Refused to fights Jackson. Charlie Mitchell was basically a middle, and we really don't know how good guys like John Flood and Paddy Ryan were.

35. Peter Jackson
Wins over Slavin, Godfrey, and Maher. Shame that he did not get a title shot, but since he only managed a draw against Corbett, claims that he was significantly better than the Corbett or Fitzsimmons cannot really be made.

34. Jim Corbett
Beat Sullivan, Chonyski, Mitchell, Kilrain and even managed a draw with Jackson, but never gave Jackson a shot. Lost to a middleweight. His reputation has not maintained with time.

33. Jimmy Bivins
One of the best of the black fighters that Louis couldn't/didn't defend against, scoring wins over Lee Q. Murray, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Lee Savold, Tami Murielloa, Joey Maxim, Turkey Thompson, Gus Levenisch, and a number of other notables.

32. Bob Fitzimmons
I don't think a lot of the pre-Jack Johnson era, but Bob clearly had a unique accomplishment in being middle, LHW, and heavyweight champion. Beat Corbett and some other recognizable names such as Maher, Ruhlin, Tom Sharkey, Dempsey the nonpareliel, O'Brien, but only managed a draw with Choynski, and not all of this counts towards his heavyweight ranking.

31. Sam McVea
Tied with Jeanette to the fourth best black heavy in the Jack Johnson era. Did better against mutual competition, with a couple of wins each over Langford and Wills (though both usually beat him) but lost to Jeanette more than he won. Also notable win over Denver Ed Martin.

30. Larry Gains
We don't know much about Larry, except that he had 117 wins including Schmeling, Carnera, and Godfrey. If we really had the full knowing of this guy, he might be a lot higher.

29. Tim Witherspoon
Very underrated guy, in that he won two version of the title in the eighties, and beat four other titlists in Page, Tubbs, Smith, and Bruno. Also, nearly beat Holmes, and though revisionism has scrubbed it so that Holmes clearly won, at the time there were people saying terrible Tim won. Too bad this guy could not find a nutritionist and stay off the cocaine.

28. Ingemar Johanson
Johanson is generally considered to be a guy that did not have much but his right hand, but his record has terrific with wins over Patterson, Machon, Cooper, Hoff, Neuhaus, Erskine, and London. Even his losses to Patterson were hot for Floyd, and, since Patterson is the only guy to beat him, he actually shares honors with Marciano, Tunney, Bowe, and Lewis as one of the few champs to beat every many he ever fought. Really, just a hair from Patterson.

27. Chris Byrd
Criminally underrated guy who, despite being a super middle, tallied victories over Vitklit, Holyfield, and Tua. As with Marciano, you can put all the asterixs beside you want, and it is still a spectacular accomplishment. To me, the fastest heavy since Ali.

26. Max Baer
Who knows how good he could have been if he didn't kill a man in the ring and lose his desire to fight. His son later described how he woke up at night screaming. Very sad. In any event, gets there on Schmeling, Carnera, and few others.

 

25. Jack Sharkey
Beat Wills, Godfrey, Carnera, Risko, Stribling, Lohran, and split those two strange fights with Schmeling.

24. Ken Norton
Soley based on his performances against Ali, and throw in Quarry. Some embarrassing losses against punchers, and one bum.

23. Joe Walcott
Great win over Charles and should have had the Bomber, but lots of losses on there. A strange, roller-coaster career.

22. VitKlit
Wish I could rate him higher but the wins aren't there. Great statistical record, though, and the comeback will always be talked about.

21. Riddick Bowe
Almost solely for the first win with Holyfield and an impressive looking record. Should have about three DQ losses, possibly a loss to Tubbs, and disgraced himself by running from Lewis.

20. Floyd Patterson
His reign was mostly a disgrace, but he managed wins over Moore, Jackson, Bonevena, Cooper, Machon, and Johanson. Much like Schmeling, in the big picture he was great.

19. Max Schmeling
His title run was a disgrace, but he is the only man to hold a win over physical prime bomber, has his disputed fights with Sharkey, and also beat Hamas, Stribling, Nuesal, Risko, and Walker. And he should have gotten the shot against Braddock and won the title back. Joe Louis' version of Joe Frazier.

18. Charles "Sonny" Liston
I realize that an entire legend has sprung up around the guy, but basically, his record is not that impressive. He destroyed Patterson, who was great but uber-chinny, and defeated Valdez, Williams, Machon, and Foley, who were solid but unspectacular. Quit twice against Ali.

17. Ezzard Charles
Very underrated, PfP guy with the wins over Louis, Walcott, Maxim, Moore. Impressive that he started as a middle. Wish I could rate him higher.

16. Larry Holmes
I have argued this one to death elsewhere--I find the man overrated because he openly, without a question ducked Page and Thomas, and even bragged about doing it. He helped to fragment titles by giving the IBF credibility. That being said, he had a beautiful jab, and was tough in the ring. And he did have 19 defenses (Frazier was not official) even if a majority of them were utter garbage.

15. Jack Dempsey
Good place for the man who fought about once a year as champ, and never fought his #1 contender. He is still a legend, and might have beaten Wills, but as it stands, Wills is the real champ in my book.

14. Mike Tyson
Such a meteoric rise...and fall. I honestly believe that he could have been the best ever. But he didn't want it.

13. Sam Langford
What a phenom. Started as a lightweight, and won 180 fights up to heavy. PfP greatness.

12. Jim Jeffries
Only one super-out-of-prime loss, with some great wins. I don't dock him as much points as the other color line guys, because 1. He fought three good black fighters coming up, 2. He considered giving Johnson a shot, and Johnson blew it by losing (controversial) to Hart, and 3. Jeffries eventually did fight him.

11. Jack Johnson
No one denies his skill and accomplishment, but I find him a hair overrated for two reasons: 1. He also did not fight the black fighters when he won the title, and 2. He has some embarrassing losses (Chonyski). A great fighter no doubt and we could put him a bit higher.

10. Gene Tunney
Beat every man he ever fought, including greats Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey.

9. Harry Wills
I was once a huge Jack Dempsey fan, and according to the Mauler he wanted to fight Wills, but objectively, Wills has the better record, and was the real champ of their era. The color line was such a shame.

8. WladKlit
Two time champ with 23 defenses. Yup, if garbage defenses like those of Wilder's count, then so do Wladdy's WBO reign. The prime losses hurt, as well as the weak comp, and I could see him being lower on a lot of lists.

7. Evander Holyfield
Would be higher, as he beat the second most number of greats behind Ali, but he is a bit diminished in my mind with the "Evan Fields" controversy. We really don't know how good he was, but it is a shame to leave him of entirely, so I will say seven with an asterix. Could be a bit higher, or much lower.

6. Joe Frazier
Winner of the fight of the century. Love the man.

5. George Foreman
Two-time champ with some great wins, and the entire mystique of the comeback. Lineal champ in BOTH of boxing's golden eras. Ponder that!

4. Lennox Lewis
Presided over the second golden era of boxing, beat every man he ever fought, beat Tyson, Holyfield, and Vitklit, and scared Bowe into making a coward of himself.

3. Rocky Marciano
The "0." Haters can hate, and somewhere in that big boxing ring in the sky, the Rock is laughing. Also, highest knockout percentage with 88%. Call out all the asterixs you want.

2. Joe Louis
25 defenses. Someday it will be broken, but 25 UNDISPUTED defenses will never be broken. Had the war not happened, it might have been more, as he fought dozens, even hundreds of exhibitions.

1. Muhammad Ali
Beat the most great, near great, and just damned good fighters. Patterson, Liston, Norton, Foreman, Frazier, and his second tier wins would be a great and noble reign for most.

 

But we all know that he signed to fight Langford before that, and declined to go through with the fight. So how much were those "chances worth?"

 

It has got to be worth something that Dempsey name him the only man he was really afraid of.

 

They turned him down as a title defense when he was going blind. "Sorry Sam, we are looking for someone a little easier."

 

Mcvey, let me say that I am actually very glad for your contribution, and thanks. Here is why may assessment stands for my rankings:

1) It's all a moot point. He didn't defend against the best there was to defend. Dempsey tried to make the Wills fight...the point isn't his willingness, its the fact that the reigns themselves are subpar.

2) By your own admittance, he had a contract to fight Langford and reneged. You said he wanted more money---fair enough. So his reign suffered for it.

Additionally...

3) Joe Jeanette and Sam Langford both openly said that he ducked them. I take their words over other sources.

4) Johnson was going to fight McVey and Langford in Australia before he jumped bail? That is four years into his reign. What is more, he subsequently Fought Battling Jim Johnson in Paris...so he couldn't have fought a tougher black man? Of course he could have. Or in Buenas Aires, or Cuba, or anywhere else he wanted to.

So my assessment stands. But again, thanks for the context. Good stuff.

 

HHHMMMM. I could put him on the honorable mentions.

Problems are...

1. that he has a lot of embarrassing losses.
2. The Lewis fight was a Don King stoppage. I watched it at the time and the announcers were going nuts, as was I.
3. It was a post 40 Holmes.

Still, I think he needs to go in the honorables, with I will do later.

By the way, you can always post your own, No need for the logn explanations. Just a simple comparative list.