My attempt at a top 50 heavyweights and some honorable mentions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Oct 25, 2018.


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  1. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The response if fine.

    There is one.

    It's best not to use "lol." It makes you look childish, and false certainty is just annoying.

    Uh, no. They were 38 years old, but Walcott was champ, Archie Moore the LHW champ and #1 contender, and Louis in the top five witha string of 8 very good victories. And they were all legends. You also completely forget that Marciano defeated a string of #1 and #2 contenders of younger age, any of whom would stack up against the garbage Holmes fought (with the exception of Witherspoon and Norton, who both arguably beat him).

    Marciano's record shits all over Holmes'.

    He beat them when he could get them in the ring, and you are the first and only living soul I have ever talked to who believes that Lewis lost the rematch.

    Also beat a good string of contenders, and, unlike Larry who ducked fighters and FRAGMENTED titles, Lewis fought who was in front of him and UNIFED belts.

    Not hard to understand. Larry ran from Page and Thomas, guys like Bowe ran from Lewis.

    Depth matters when you have a big win to hang your hat on. Larry doesn't have one. Period. Larry beat mostly complete bums, has a couple of questionable decisions against good, but not great fighters, humiliated himself by fighting a very sick Ali, and ran from guys who could have legitimized him.

    Larry did a lot to disgrace the sport, and his spot stands on my list.
     
    catchwtboxing, Oct 28, 2018
    catchwtboxing, Oct 28, 2018
    #61
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It proves he was willing to defend against them and the fights did not happen because of circumstances outside his control.Please do some research!
     
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    #62
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You do talk some absolute ****!
    The American public did not want a black heavyweight champion.That is why the White Hope era began , they had no interest in seeing Johnson defending his title against another black man ,because the status quo would remain the same. a black man would still be champion! Johnson got $31,500 for defending against Flynn,a man he had already given a comprehensive drubbing to,he could get that kind of money because Flynn was WHITE ,there was no such money available for defence against another black man. The only time it was there was for a defence against Jeannette inNY and Johnson promptly accepted the offer only to have the Boxing commission veto the fight twice.So whose fault is it those fights never happened ?
    Produce a verified offer of $30,000,[Johnson's price for a title defence,] against,McVey,Jeannette,Langford, that Johnson refused .

    You won't do so I've been asking Mendoza this question for 9 years and he hasn't come up with one YET!

    BULL**** talk about he could have fought in Russia, China,Argentina on the moon is the height of absurdity.
    Who would promote these fights?Who would put up the money? You talk like a simpleton!
    How does Johnson's situation equate with AJ over a hundred years later?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    #63
  4. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He fought Battling Jim Johnson who was black last time I checked. Funny the American public couldn't veto the fight.

    America didn't have the power to veto fights outside America and didn't stop Johnson from fighting a black man in a title defense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Cojimar 1946, Oct 29, 2018
    Cojimar 1946, Oct 29, 2018
    #64
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How dumb is this? The public didn't veto the fight the commission did!
    The Jeannette fight was vetoed because the NY Commission refused to let Johnson box in the State!They wouldn't even let him give an exhibition for charity which he offered to do!
    Johnson fought Battling Jim in Paris!
    Now find a verified offer of $30,000, Johnson's asking price for a defence ,that he refused to fight Jeannette,Langford, or McVey.
    Or perhaps you think he should have fought them for nothing?
    He didnt win the title until he was 30 years old after years of being avoided and fighting for chump change,once champion he asked for the same price for a defence as Burns had received to fight him in 1908 was that unreasonable?
    ps Johnson was a boxer not a promoter this seems to have escaped you!
     
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 29, 2018
    #65
  6. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Losses are specifically mentioned in the downgrading of some. I think what you don't get is that not all defeats are equal. Pre-prime or post-prime losses don't count as much, losses in great series can actually boost (its called the "Schmeling effect, or Schmeling paradox), screwjobs or controversial losses count for less, and finally, there are eras in which fighters fought all of the time to make a living, and their losses are not as important, except in big fights.

    Really it comes down to how embarrassing the loss it.

    But do please re-read some of the entries in which losses are mentioned. Thanks for your contribution and please post your top 50, or whatever you want to do.
     
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    #66
    PhillyPhan69 likes this.
  7. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am sorry, but can you re-read your first three paragraphs and clean them up a bit? I can't possibly understand what you are saying.

    I used to like to drink and post too, and its no big deal--I am not being a wise guy. But what you posted is pure gibberish.

    Then have to be wins just as seperated, as it counts as much if not more (Klitschko was not determined to win against Fury, just as Lewis vs. Rahman), while McCall achieved Rahman.

    What you didn't understand is, you first listed wins are most important for your ratings, but defeats are not less; this prime-time (Scheißtime) speech is nonsense, you have to look over the whole career, to get an overview and rank as objective as possible, not so surface.

    What is a vitklitoris by the way or a wladoritis (sounds like a sickness to me)?:thinking::dunno It's very direspectful to use such pet-names and typical American-ignorant. While complaining when I write Tschagajew, Maskajew, Tschudinow, Gassijew among others, which are indeed the correct typing (transcriptons), which is measuring with different cups of tea.
     
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    #67
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    In answer to why Flynn is highly ranked on Boxrec. Points from wins over
    Al Kaufman
    Sam Langford
    Billy Papke
    Jack Twin Sullivan
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Oct 30, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Oct 30, 2018
    #68
  9. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe because this is how things were done back then. People routinely took non title fights so they could keep the title or not fight the best fighters for the same reason. This was a common place and many HW champions spent more time touring the nation and putting on exhibitions than defending their title consistently. Sullivan didn't fight Jackson. Corbett also never gave Jackson a shot when he was Champion. Jeffries avoided Johnson when he was champion. Dempsey Wills etc etc. This was par for the course for the time. What's more, Johnson at least had already beaten these fighters he "avoided" before he was champion unlike the other examples listed.
     
    KuRuPT, Oct 30, 2018
    KuRuPT, Oct 30, 2018
    #69
    mcvey likes this.
  10. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Some good arguments and I appreciate you all, even those accusing me of liking black fighters too much, having an agenda, or hating on Larry Holmes.

    Still might be fun if some of you posted your top 50, or 30, or whatever you want to do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    catchwtboxing, Oct 30, 2018
    #70
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The guy posts nonsense!
     
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    #71
    BitPlayerVesti likes this.
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You a historian?lol
     
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    #72
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Then he would need a promoter willing to put those fights on.


    Now how about you name one who was? I'd get more sense out of one of my dogs!
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    #73
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Top 20 In no order..

    Ali
    Louis
    Holmes
    Liston
    Dempsey
    Lewis
    Tyson
    Johnson
    Frazier
    Jeannette
    Foreman
    Bowe
    Holyfield
    Langford
    Wills
    Wlad K
    Vitali K
    Marciano
    Tunney
    Walcott
    Rough draft.
     
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    mcvey, Oct 31, 2018
    #74
    Big Ukrainian likes this.
  15. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just got around to reading this. Want to commend you on the effort. I agree with ignoring head to head for any kind of historical rating because the size increase makes comparing modern heavies to heavies of the remote past pointless. I will make some comments on your total posts when I have time in the next few days, but will stick to the top 15 today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    edward morbius, Oct 31, 2018
    edward morbius, Oct 31, 2018
    #75
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