My attempt at a top 50 heavyweights and some honorable mentions.

on the top 15, overall I think very good. Your top four is my top four.

I like Wills somewhere in the 9th to 15th slots. I think Jeffries is about right.

Where we differ some is I would move Johnson up. Your criticism of his title reign is valid, but Johnson's peak was the five years before beating Burns when he was the black champion and defended that title against all the top contenders. Also, because of the US govt going after him, I think it fair to cut him a bit of slack for the last couple of years of his championship reign. His inactivity wasn't all his fault. The bottom line is that few indeed can match his longevity as a top heavyweight, and he was arguably the top man in the division for about a decade. Few beat as many really top men, but on the down side, most were old or small or green when Johnson got to them. Still, I have him at #6 and think he certainly should at least crack the top ten.

Another small disagreement is with Foreman at #5. His achievement of winning the title twice over two decades apart is remarkable enough to earn him a top ten position, but it also true that he lost to an aging Ali and Young back in the 1970's, and to Holyfield and Morrison in the 1990's. His second title shot came off a loss. The bottom line is that he was never the best heavyweight out there and his resume is really thin of top men. He lost to Ali and Holyfield, and didn't fight Holmes, Tyson, Michael Spinks, Lewis, etc. So I would drop him a few places.

And I would drop Dempsey out of the top 15 and replace him with Liston. Your points on Liston's resume being a bit thin is valid, but at least he beat the best men over about a five year run. Dempsey simply never beat the best out there.

My big disagreements? Holmes. I have him at #5. But you have discussed this with others.

And Tunney. Frankly, I think a top ten rating at heavyweight is way over the top. He beat a long laid off and slipping Dempsey. Whom else did he defeat who would earn him such a high rating? Heeney? A young Risko? Spalla? Gibbons, Carpentier, and Levinsky were all light-heavies. Greb a middle. A great middle, but still a middle. Tunney would possibly deserve a top ten rating at light-heavy, but simply did not do enough at heavy for me to feel such a high rating is justified. Also, you said he did not duck Wills and Godfrey. Perhaps true as things worked out, but almost his first act as champion was to publicly draw the color line when Wills was still the top contender, and he is the only heavyweight champion I can think of who never fought a black man.

Still, on balance, I very much like your effort and your list, and am just putting out my disagreements and quibbles to elicit your take on why these men deserve their ratings. This is a fun thread to read. And I hope to comment on the rest of the list later.

 

That’s fair. With these lists, I always struggle with the question of whether it should be based on a fighter’s overall career / resume within their respective era or based on head-to-head predictions, or a combination of both. I find it especially tough with heavyweights due to the significant increase in average heights and weights over the years.

 

How does Dempsey crack the top 5? he missed out on his most dangerous contemporaries

 

Just one actually.

 

He missed out on Greb and Wills and lost to Tunney H2H. This massively impacts his legacy.

 

If the best fighters can't agree on terms it seems reasonable to strip the champion and declare the title vacant.

Johnson scored some good wins prior to becoming champion but after beating Burns he did nothing to prove he was the best in the world.

What is the evidence for Johnson being the best heavyweight in 1913 or 1914 for example?

 

Jess Willard is another example. I don't think Jess Willard was ever the best heavyweight in the world during his official title reign.

He didn't score wins over any of the top contenders of his reign and the one guy he did fight demolished him.

I would say the best heavyweights were probably as follows
Jim Jeffries 1899-1904
Jack Johnson 1905-1911
Sam Langford 1911-1916
Harry Wills 1916-18
Harry Greb 1918-1925
Gene Tunney 1925-1928