My Career: Earnie Shavers

Shavers hit fighters so hard they were knocked down, bounced off the canvas, and miraculously returned to their feet, ready to fight on.

He made a specialty of that.

 

Are you saying it wasn't way above average?

SRR was an above average fighter too. The Beatles were an above average band. Jack Nicklaus was an above average golfer. Get it?

You can't mount an argument for Foreman at all. Numerous common opponents are on record with all saying Shaver's hit harder, some claiming by some margin which gives an insight into the absurd power ht wielded.

What, cut to cruiserweight because you say so? The guy fought comfortably at 210. Effective? He might be the hardest puncher ever at Heavyweight, wtf is "effective"?

Don't confuse power with ability. He'd likely have more trouble with good agile 200 pounders than big cumbersome fighters. He'd have more than enough power to compete with the big boys.

Being perhaps the hardest hitter ever at just 210 shows you don't have to be 240 plus to HAMMER.

What other way? Well one could start with testimonies from people that actually took the punches rather than those sitting there punching keys. One could also look at quality of opposition, the durability of opponents, etc. The list goes on and on.

 

I'm saying his power isn't anywhere near what it's advertised. Pretty simple to understand, I'd've thought.

Cut to cruiserweight because he'd be fighting opponents nearer his own size. Dropping 10lbs of temporary water weight is preferable, I'd think, to routinely fighting with a 30 to 40lbs weight disadvantage.

He might be able to actually stop some of the fighters he knocked down then.

Possibly, though his knockout percentage dropped way off when he wasn't beating up on LHWs and the like.

Earnie's problem wasn't his delivery, it was hurting an opponent bad enough to keep them on the canvas.

Except he wasn't the hardest hitter ever, not demonstrably. Where are all his one punch KOs? Where are all the opponents he left looking for dead? You have to rely on what other fighters said about him to mount any sort of argument for his otherworldly status. The actual in ring footage doesn't cut it.

No it doesn't. It starts and ends with the testimonies.

You could name all the quality and durable fighters Shavers actually stopped on the fingers of one hand. Try it.

 

You said quite a few things, not all fathomable.

Cut to cruiserweight because he'd be fighting opponents nearer his own size. Dropping 10lbs of temporary water weight is preferable, I'd think, to routinely fighting with a 30 to 40lbs weight disadvantage.

He might be able to actually stop some of the fighters he knocked down then.

He'd have no trouble stopping some of the big lumps either. As i said speed down lower might worry him more than size.

At any rate he'd be an average fighter as he just wasn't that good.

Possibly, though his knockout percentage dropped way off when he wasn't beating up on LHWs and the like.

Earnie's problem wasn't his delivery, it was hurting an opponent bad enough to keep them on the canvas.

He badly hurt a couple of the greatest heavies ever and destroyed another regardless os percentages.

Delivery was exactly his problem. You can add stamina, durability, skill level and a few other things. This is why despite being an insanely powerful puncher he often did not get the job done. The guy just wasn't that good.

Except he wasn't the hardest hitter ever, not demonstrably. Where are all his one punch KOs? Where are all the opponents he left looking for dead? You have to rely on what other fighters said about him to mount any sort of argument for his otherworldly status. The actual in ring footage doesn't cut it.

The guys got 68 ko's and you've seen next to none of them so lets not pretend you have much of an idea of what you are talking about. The guy has 68 ko's in 74 wins!!!! Foreman has 68 in 76 but is a much much better fighter with a far better chin.

No it doesn't. It starts and ends with the testimonies.

You could name all the quality and durable fighters Shavers actually stopped on the fingers of one hand. Try it.

68 ko's in 74 wins is not just testimony. It's insanity.

 

Yes .

Every fighter has their strengths and weaknesses .

Those exactly were indeed Earnies weaknesses .

 

He demonstrably had less success against opponents the larger they got. He might well be able to drop a few of the big lumps in the division these days, but like a lot of opponents of Shavers, I doubt he closes the show against them.

He rocked a shot Ali who'd lost his legs. Hardly the stuff legends are made of. Norton is his most high profile KO, and he was never the most sturdy chinned of opponents. It's equivalent to Sanders KTFOing Wlad and rocking Vitali.

Shavers's knockdown of Holmes is still his most impressive achievement, and even then it's still just a knockdown.

His delivery was fine. He routinely hit guys he was trying to hit until he gassed or got knocked out. His inability to get the job done was due to his inability to put a fighter's lights out, or damage them enough that his less than first rate finishing abilities wouldn't be an issue. Tua had similar limitations to Shavers, but you didn't see anyone recover from one of his left hook bombs because by and large when Tua hit you you were completely fcuked.

That's what an 'insanely powerful' puncher does to people.

Same goes for you too buddy. I've seen every Shavers fight there is to see which is, I'm assuming, the same number that you have. Unless you have some super secret stash, in which case you owe it to the world (and all Shavers nutbaggers everywhere) to upload it ASAP.

So that's what your argument comes down to. Stats.

I shouldn't even have to tell you the problem with relying on unseen fights to form an opinion of someone. Quite aside from the fact that most of Shavers's KO victims were complete scrubs, we've got no idea what percentage of the KOs themselves were one punch KOs, KOs from a series of punches, ref stoppages or the like. The data tells us next to nothing.

The only thing you can infer from those numbers is that Shavers was good at beating up scrubs and string beans, which puts him in the same bracket as someone like Shannon Briggs.