my current p4p list top... 10 or so

Fair enough, I can't say I agree but at least you're being consistent and not picking and choosing.

 

Pacquiao, Bradley, and Klitschko aren't p4p fighters. Pacquiao showed against Marquez, Floyd, and Bradley his limitations. I think Crawford, Mikey Garcia, and Brook all beat Pac if they fight him tomorrow. I love Marquez but at this point in his career and after his showings vs Bradley and Alvarado I can't say he'd beat a welterweight like Brook or Thurman. Bradley's very good but no better than that, doesn't have the defence, power, or boxing iq to match the best around. Klitschko's had an unfair advantage beating smaller men through his reign, and just wouldn't beat so many smaller fighters were he scaled down to their size. Anyway p4p to me just isn't for heavyweights. Assuming Floyd's now retired, here's what I've got for a p4p top 20, September 2015...


1. Rigo
2. Gonzalez
3. Ward
4. Lomachenko
5. Golovkin
6. Crawford
7. Kovalev
8. Inoue
9. Estrada
10. Mikey Garcia
11. Nietes
12. Jermell/Jermall Charlo
13. Degale
14. Yamanaka
15. Beterbiev
16. Lara
17. Canelo
18. Brook
19. Linares
20. Frampton

 

Why is it an unfair advantage if you are naturally bigger than somebody else?

If you are born with longer arms, is that an unfair advantage as well?

 

Yet Jack makes it by beating a guy who drew twice with a 40+ yo Bika, and beat a guy who's best win is a draw over a 9 fight Chunky DeGale.

Gotta love a hater.

I fukking can't wait for Golovkin to stomp that roiding flake Andre Fraud.

Even if he's gotta do it on his 40th birthday. :-(

 

If you have longer arms but weigh the same it's fair enough. But using a size advantage to win as much as anything else suggests a boxer doesn't have the skill to win were he the same size. Pound for pound is ability relative to weight. If Klitschko had to fight heavyweights his size like boxers in every other weight class he wouldn't be as dominant as he's been.

For the same reason a fighter's p4p standing should be put in perspective if he regularly fights boxers from a lower weight class, or rehydrates and frequently has a significant weight advantage over his opponents.

 

He probably would be, how many big heavyweights there are as good as Klitschko? You think the likes of Dimitrenko, Price, Fury, Wilder, Wach, Valuev beat him?

 

I think at a certain point, there are diminishing returns to size and guys that are 6 ft 6+ that are any good are very uncommon.

 

I'm not saying he necessarily doesn't beat all of them. But I do insist he wouldn't be 'as dominant' as he has been. Beyond that, heavyweight these days is a much weaker division than almost every other division, which shows something about the quality of Klitschko's opposition, and what it takes to beat them.

 

For some people that's reason to rate heavyweights p4p. But that's exactly why I don't.

 

You don't know what you are talking about.

A guy with 15 fights the #1 p4p fighter?

A guy that is 4-1 as your #4?

But let's exclude the most dominant HW since the mid 80's (soon to be since Joe Louis).

 

1. Wlad
2. Gonzalez
3. Ward
4. Pac
5. Golovkin
6. Kovalev
7. Rigo
8. Crawford
9. Yamanaka
10. Uchiyama

 

I don't think it'd be much different to be honest.

 

If Wlad's as dominant vs Fury as he was vs Povetkin I'll consider giving him more credit p4p It won't be too much more though, because p4p to me is simply who beats if they weighed the same, and rating a heavyweight too highly is a disservice to how great the best smaller fighters are.

 

Yeah but I think that doesn't make any sense, do you think say Rigondeaux or Pacuqiao would fight the same if they weighed 250lbs? For me p4p is nothing more than comparison of achievements across weight classes. Klitschko doesn't have many great wins, but he's got some good ones and he's been more dominant than pretty much anyone else in boxing bar maybe Mayweather.

My point is you can't scale up fighters up and down like that and compare their abilities, that's nonsense.

 

*Troll alert*