My Dad's Top 10 Heavyweights

Would you admit that the writers of the time were generally racist? And perhaps had emotional ties to what wouldve seemed like the last of the dominant white HW's?

Then on top of that, Dempsey did not fight black HW's. Who have dominated the HW division ever since being given the opportunity, ever since Dempsey. The no.1 contender of Dempsey's era was also black himself, who Dempsey did not fight. Does this not suggest there views of him as the greatest, illogical? And maybe racially influenced and maybe a little bitter?

Also what does literacy have to do with analytical skills? I can say the same **** in one sentence, that a trying too hard literacy buff will say in two paragraphs full of 14 syllabal words.

 

Interestingly, at the time of the late 1960's Murray Warner radio computer tournament, Fleischer picked Louis to defeat Dempsey. (This is in the audio special feature on the Ali-Marciano superfight dvd).

 

It is difficult to make sweeping judgements about how a fighter was percieved in his own time, but here are excerpts from an article comparing Louis to Dempsey prior to the Galento fight in 1939. This was a year after Louis destroyed Schmeling. Dan Daniel in Ring Magazine, June 1939:


"Louis is a fine fighter. It may be that after he has finished, his name will be set down among the great champions. But right now he is not what you could call a popular titleholder. He does nothing to make himself popular. He trains, he fights, he goes back into his shell, and then there is another match, and the newsreels show Joe doing something unspectacular, saying next to nothing, and not looking especially clever or alert while saying it."

"From the start, Dempsey made himself a dramatic, colorful fighter. The picture into which he went hurtling with his victory over Willard in Toledo in 1919 was conducive to the development of a great figure, if only he had the personality to help. Jack had all of that. Jack Dempsey, the Manassa Mauler. Dempsey, who had hopped freights, who had been a harvest hand, a miner, king of them all. Tex Rickard, a great promoter, and the era of easy money and million dollar gates assisted nobly."

"Then Joe Louis. Joe slept, he read the funnies, then he knocked out somebody, and the cycle was started all over again. Sleep, the funnies, the phonograph--and a fight and sleep once more."


*I think a very revealing article.

**It is interesting that Louis is criticized in a left-handed way for actually defending his title often.

 

I'd be irresponsible to 'admit' any such thing. My expertise stops short of psycho-analyzing men I've never met who died before my father was born.

Perhaps some of them were racist and/or emotional. Perhaps some boxing writers today would be better off selling shoes.

Dempsey gets no free pass from me for avoiding Wills or Greb. I can promise you this much though, Ray Arcel was no racist and neither was Mickey Walker. Both thought very highly of Dempsey. A million other non-racist and fair-minded observers did as well.

Literacy has to do with the quality and sophistication of the writer. When I read an article that is full of grammatical errors and misspellings, I dismiss the writer. Analysis has to do with how well the writer understands what constitutes a high level of boxing. Read Matt McGrain's articles and you'll see high level analysis.

 

Dempsey defending the heavyweight title was like the World Cup of football. Only happened once in 4 years. In all seriousness it was always a huge event with Dempsey fighting, unlike perhaps Joe Louis against the "bum of the month", though many of those bums would hold their own against some of Dempsey's opponents.


I think that the "old timers" do often confuse Dempsey the character with Dempsey the fighter. As a fighter he was brilliant of course but he was even more so a popular attraction. To Ray Arcel and others, neutral boxing observers otherwise, he was like Mike Tyson to a kid who grew up in the late 80's. It's just impossible to be objective about a fighter that left as much of an impact on you as Dempsey did on many people who lived in the 1920's.

For example Arcel said that Dempsey would have a "picnic" with any modern heavyweight up to the 1970's and 1980's and would wipe the floor with all of them. I find that hard to believe but I can understand why he would say that.

 

So can I,

Human nature prompts us to gravitate towards the people and things that were most meaningful in our youth. I don't know if it has to do with how the brain developes early in life, or what, but that seems to be the pattern. I remember watching the Joe Louis documentary when it first appeared on HBO back in early 2008.. An elderly man was interviewed, who was an avid Louis fan back in the 30's and 40's, and was a child during that time frame, said that he felt Louis would have beaten both Ali and Dempsey. I think every generation has it's own emotional attachment to the icons that defined the given period...

 

You're nuts.

 

Very true what you posted about every generation has it's emotional
attachments to the hero's of their time...Mine was Joe Louis...As with almost every one I knew...We held him in awe...I can honestly say he was beloved as a champ,and for his dignity as a man...
However I respect the opinions of boxing experts of the past,who saw
Jack Dempsey in his prime,and were in awe of his catlike qualities, his two handed punching power, and his innate toughness...I also respect the
likes of Joe Gans, Barbados Joe Walcott,Tommy Ryan etc,fighters i have not seen on film, but were lauded by all of their peers...
Who is close minded in this debate, I who have stated that if the polls of 1950 chose Joe Louis over Jack Dempsey by a large margin, I would trust
the opinion of the writers who saw BOTH at their peaks, and would be in the camp of Joe Louis...Or the other posters who have never seen the peak Dempsey in action, and blindly ignore the opinions of those
that had seen Dempsey in his prime, and picked Jack in a fantasy fight.?Who is being fair minded ?

 

That is a VERY interesting article.

It sounds a bit like a grumpy, or even cynic person, criticizing a man for doing his job well. When the worst remark is "he doesn't say anything spectacular afterward", then you must be doing something right...

Plus, it once again illustrates how fighters, even the greatest ones, aren't always perceived that great while still active.

 

This is the kind of **** burt bases his opinion from

 

--Crazy like a fox.

 

Those who dismiss an opinion simply because of the era in which that opinion is formed are practicing precisely that which they condemn.

 

Pachilles it is hard for me to get down in the gutter with you.
I have arthritis...

 

I came from the gutter and im still here!

I see no changes all I see is racist faces, misplaced hate makes disgrace for beinstock. He wonders what it takes to make us youths believe him, let's erase the tapes. Take your bias out the era you'll be acting right cus both black and white is fighting for titles tonight. And the only time whitey wins is when they fight each other, it takes skill to be real, have you seen this brotha?

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And although the skills seem heaven sent Burt ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh. It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact the Hall of Fame is packed, and it's filled with blacks.

And I ain't saying Dempsey didnt do what he had to do, but now I'm back with the facts giving em back to you. Wills woulda jacked him up, Louis backed him up, Ali cracked him up and Tyson pimp smacked him up.
You gotta stop being a sheep, he aint never fought anybody 7 feet.
I'll predict he cant touch the Klits, you don't trust this but if he tried to rush they'd bust his:!:.
My opinion he'd be lying in a pool, you say it ain't cool, my mama didn't raise no foolnono:nono.
And as long as way back the blacks take the straps and whitey gets laid back. Money May dont worry bout the pay check, bling bling hanging from the mans neck. Undefeated after all these years:bart

fap fap fap fap fap, thats the way it is

 

pachilles that's some corny **** dog

he would have beat wills ass anyway, even langford said so