My Dad's Top 10 Heavyweights

Weather one agrees or disagrees, I find this to be a rather convincing argument.

 

I, for one, always felt Louie would KO Demps in a time machine..... Poll or no Poll, Louie wins on my card.....

Trivia:

That was a debate on "Sanford and Son" in which Fred argue's about the fantasy match with a white lady housekeeper..... The lady was a classic era character actress who was a guest on the show...... WORD! She picked LOUIS!

MR.BILL

 

I believe the charactor actress was Mary Wickes

 

You are my God......... Her name was driving me nuts...... Perhaps I am indeed slipping.?.? I once had great power....
atsch

MR.BILL:bbb

 

A very funny and talented lady whose career went back to early Abbott and Costello movies, I believe.

 

Thanks, I think!

She played on Dennis the Menace for years.

http://farm.imdb.com/name/nm0926897/

 

I dont think this is entirely true. While there may have been manipulation and excuse-making, you're taking an extreme line on the matter to place the blame only with Dempsey and his manager.
Several state authorities and people in high places were against hosting a big "mixed" bout for the championship because of the real threat of horrific race riots and civil unrest.
The New York boxing commision voiced Wills' case one minute then publically stated that they would not entertain the idea of mixed bout the next ! They wanted to be seen as the guardians of fairness in boxing but they also wanted to remain respectable in the eyes of politicians, and mixed bouts for the heavyweight championship of such magnitude were considered risky or downright irresponsible.
Tex Rickard thought it would kill the sport.
Dempsey always insisted he thought Wills would be an easy fight, and Dempey was quite candid in interviews of the time and reckoned he would have had a lot of trouble beating Greb.
Boxing ahd only just been properly legalized at the time in question, and Dempsey, with Kearns and Rickard were creating a boom period with unparelleled money and interest in the game. Boxing had its opponents who wanted to kill it, and the race riot thing was a real threat and had occured just 10-15 years earlier with the Jeffries-Johnson match.

 

Great insight of that complicated era...great insight !!

 

Bingo. Out of all the ATG heavyweight champions, I am most dissapointed in Jack Dempsey's lack of accomplishments.

 

If this was the case, then why not fight him, and get it over with?

 

Good information and a very interesting addition to the thread.. I still can't give Dempsey a pass for not facing all the best fighters of his era, but I have always suspected that there were reasons beyond him just choosing not to do it.

 

Have a look yourself on an article on Dempsey not fighting Wills despite public demand; no color line.

Again, here are some facts:

• In 1919, right after Dempsey won the title, he was interviewed and principally drew the color line;
• Dempsey fought Tunney in Philly... why? Because he couldn't get a license in NY, for avoiding Wills for so long (this one might be interesting for those who claim it's "historic revisionism" to say that no one wanted to see Dempsey-Wills);
• Wills was promised a title shot in 1920 if he got by Fulton. He knocks Fulton out in 3. So, Dempsey fights him? No, Dempsey fights Miske who was well known to be terminally ill at that point, as witnessed by the fact that he was a 7-1 underdog despite pretty much going even in their last two meetings;
• The second best black heavyweight during Dempsey's reign, Norfolk, was set up to fight Wills later in 1922, with the winner getting Dempsey. This, by the way, is the same Norfolk that Dempsey didn't want to fight or spar in training for Carpentier, the same Kid who also made Brennan look so bad that writers commented if Brennan would give Dempsey trouble, he better stay away from Norfolk. Wills easily dispatched Norfolk in 2 rounds. Now instead of fighting Wills, Dempsey focuses on the winner of Greb vs Gibbons. Greb screwed up his chances though, because he made the mistake of beating Gibbons and therefore eliminating himself as a possible opponent. Dempsey follows his tradition of fighting the LOSER of title eliminators by going 15 with Gibbons;
• Dempsey was not bound to Rickard. The Miske championship fight was promoted by Fitzsimmons. Promotors all over the USA & Canada were willing to make the Wills bout happen, Dempsey choose not to bite;
• In 1924, Wills agrees to fight any heavyweight Rickard selects for him, in order to get a Dempsey fight (source: Time Magazine, 07-04-1924). Rickard choose Fulton. Wills beats Firpo. Will Rickard stay true to his word this time? No;
• Time Magazine, 27-07-1925: "Jack Dempsey reached an agreement to fight whomever Tex Rickard should select--one bout this year, one next. His first opponent will be Gene Tunney, George Godfrey, or Jack Renault. Then, if not defeated, he will face Harry Wills.". Apparently, Wills moved down the line three spots by winning his title eliminator(s).

It's crystal clear that Dempsey and/or his management kept Wills on a leash and did everything to avoid him. And they succeeded, for a record amount of 7 years. Same goes for Greb.

 

I always insist that a fight between me and Wlad would be easy. I'm not going to fight him, but he's big & slow like Wills; I would easily beat him.

Actually, I might offer him a contract that is sure to fall through, have pictures of him signing it, and then claim I reawwy wanted to fight him!