My Dad's Top 10 Heavyweights

Unforgiven, I have some information that will shed more light on the subject..I discovered a book at home i had misplaced..
It reveals thatin 1924 Promoter Floyd Fitzimmons of Jersey City signed
Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills to a bout, for Sept 6,1924, at Benton
Harbor, Michigan. Tickets were printed for the bout [one of which I have
a copy of ],ringside tickets were priced at $27.50...But the bout fell through ,because Promoter Fitzimmons could not come up wiuth the money guarantee...Harry Wills recieved $50,000 for the cancellation...
At the time the New York Boxing Commission was wary of permitting the
fight to be held in New York ,because of the terrible race riots following
the Jeffries-Johnson fight years before...This info can be found in the
Pictorial history of Boxing,by Sam Andre,1959 -Publisher Citadel Press...

 

Damn right, Old man....:good

Mary Wickes.....:hey

MR.BILL:hat

 

The hell is all?

MR.BILL

 

This is in fact true good job on the research burt heres a page I found on it guys I was actually just gonna post it haha it sums up what burt was talking about.

http://www.antekprizering.com/dempseywillstelegram.html

This content is protected

 

I have read about the size of Jack Dempsey's hands ...Now I know why!!
THEY LOOK LIKE SHOVELS !!

 

Dempsey Ko's Wills within 8.

 

What film leads you to this conclusion? Wills was no firpo, willard, fulton, morris.

 

Here is Tyson talking about Dempsey I find it very interesting.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dGf4YdiNgQ&feature=related[/ame]


Here at 7.06 into the clip

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxmkDJ_o3U&feature=related[/ame]

 

http://news.google.com.au/newspaper...J&pg=6898,6566795&dq=firpo+wills+boxing&hl=en

Here is the report of the Wills Firpo fight, which quite amazingly was fought in front of 70,000 people (how big would Dempsey Wills have been if fought then?)

But leaving that aside, it seems that Wills landed regularly on Firpo, but couldnt hurt him. Dempsey on the other hand knocked him down regularly. On the strength of this common opponent, you would have to think that there is an indication that Dempsey had the much greater KO power of the two, wouldnt you?

 

Wills was a little past his prime here, no? I think he was around 35 when he fought Firpo, but seemed to really slip soon after. Maybe a 1920 Harry Wills would have finished the job?

If we compare common opponents, Wills does better than Dempsey..as he never lost to Willie Meehan. He also broke 3 of Fred Fulton's Ribs in a one sided knockout(much like Dempsey did to Fred).

Also, I don't care if Wills finished him or not. Bottom line is Wills DOMINATED him. Badly. Knocked him down, and easily outboxed him. Dempsey, on the otherhand, was floored 3 times by Firpo. Dempsey was lucky the typewriter saved his butt or Firpo would have won the fight by TKO 2. Did Firpo ever have Wills in such trouble?


I don't think anyone rates Wills up on dempsey's level in terms of punching abilities..but as a fighter..as a skilled powerful athletic big man..I think as a all around fighter he was on dempsey's level.

 

I think you are right about Wills starting to slow down. But i think that this is about the point where Dempsey Wills quite simply should have happened. Wills had served his apprenticeship and had finally established himself as the undisputed coloured champion and had dismantled most of the best White fighters also, i cant imagine any better time than then for the fight to happen (even though obviously earlier would have been nicer). Today we assume Harry was the standout challenger for many, many years. He probably was but not to the extent we think today.

I find it amazing how perceptions change. Check this out:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZTR19231222.2.83.4

Gene Tunney beats Harry Greb, and his biggest achievement is listed as, a win over Jim Delaney! And further, it is thought that Tunney will be too good for the light heavy champ McTigue if they meet. Not because Tunney is a better fighter and brilliant technician, but because he is a big strong fighter and will have too much Power!

Today we see Tunney as a skilled boxer lightyears ahead of his time. It seems that it wasnt as evident at this stage of his career, back then.

 

Some interesting comments by Dempsey here, i think he has a fair point.

http://news.google.com.au/newspaper...,287211&dq=harry+wills+bill+tate+boxing&hl=en

Anyone know the full story behind the Wills/Tate fight. I never really realised that Dempsey's sparring partner beat Wills, but it seems as late as when Wills beat Firpo, Tate wanted a fight with Wills to see which one got Dempsey.

 

This is from May or June 1922 (i cant get the full article unfortunately), but it appears to show the opponent that the public wanted Jack to face, just after Carpentier. (i know it isnt a big sample, and unfortunately we cant see all the contenders).

Harry WIlls 116 Jack Johnson 44 Jess Willard 43. larry Greb 15 Bill Tate 8 FIred ... hly choice for an opponent for Jack Dempsey world s heavy weight boxing ...

I think it is very interesting, because it shows taht the fans still wanted to see Johnson Dempsey. Imagine how good Dempsey could have been if he realed off defences against Wills, Johnson, Willard and Greb like the public wanted. An Absolute shame those fights didnt come off.

 

Thanks for the article. So much for the myth that:

a) People weren't interested in a "negro" heavyweight, with 70.000 spectators;
b) That he wasn't liked by said public- "He was given a rousing cheer as he wended through the crowd";
c) Wills is described as having too much "boxing skill, speed and versatility of attack". Now, I'm a bit hesitant in taking and writer's word on someone being skilled from that time, as gloved boxing was new, but obviously, the idea that Wills is just another big, slow target a la Firpo and Willard is just Dempsey-fanboy-wishful thinking.

 

Of course a Dempsey-Wills fight would have been massive, that was part of the problem !
Possibly the only promoter who could have delivered that fight with the money it was worth was Tex Rickard, but he was also very hesitant about it for obvious reasons.
Also, there was a demand from politicians and the boxing commision at the time to sell tickets CHEAP.
At the same time, Kearns and Dempsey were shrewd enough to demand some payment up front for a fight that had such complications surrounding it.

It's pathetic how people simplify the whole situation to suit their agendas.