I'm The Undefeated Lachbuster, and this is Jackass. Today we're putting Marciano in our top 10 p4p list and posting it onto boxingforum24. In all seriousness, the journey finally ends. Here's the finisher: 10. Bob Fitzsimmons Wins against top 50 fighters: 1 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Beaten James J Jeffries (though fights with Jeffries were past his prime) Retired vs Jack O Brien vs Fitzsimmons 1 Beaten Tom Sharkey in the first fight (though the DQ is questionable) Generally have less losses to inferior fighters (Mick Dooley, Jim Hall, Tom Lees, etc) Most impressive feats: -Beating Nonpareil Jack Dempsey -Knocking out Tom Sharkey in 2 rounds, whereas James Jeffries couldn’t in 20 and 25. -Beating James Corbett -Knocking out undefeated middleweight champ Dan Creedon in 2 rounds -Incredible record of 61 wins (57 KOs) and 8 losses. 9. Willie Pep Wins over top 50 fighters: 1 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Beaten Saddler at least a majority of the time Retired after Saddler vs Pep 2 Beaten Sammy Angott Most impressive achievements: -Beat Sandy Saddler -General domination of division, especially with having over 200 wins 8. Ezzard Charles Wins over top 50 fighters: 8 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Retired after Maxim vs Charles 4 Beaten Marciano Beaten Walcott a majority of the time Knocked out Joe Louis Generally have less losses to inferior fighters (Lloyd Marshall, Jimmy Bivins, Kid Tunero, etc) Jesus Christ why didn’t he at least retire after Marciano vs Charles 2 Most impressive feats: -Beating Archie Moore 3 times -Beating Joe Walcott 2 times -Beating Charley Burley 2 times -Beating Joey Maxim 5 times -Being the only man to go 15 rounds with Rocky Marciano 7. Henry Armstrong Wins over top 50 fighters: 0 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Won the middleweight title Not gotten knocked out in his very first fight/not lost 3 out of his 4 first fights Retire after Armstrong vs Furr Beaten Lou Ambers in the first fight Beaten Fritzie Zivic in the first and second times Generally have less losses to inferior fighters (Tony Chavez, Joe Conde, Richie Fontaine, etc) Most impressive feats: -3 division champion -Beat Lou Ambers 6. Muhammad Ali Wins over top 50 fighters: 8 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Retired after Shavers vs Ali Beaten Ken Norton convincingly Not cheated against Henry Cooper Beaten Joe Frazier in the first fight Trained during the 3 year draft dodge retirement Convincingly beaten Sonny Liston Most impressive feats: -Beating George Foreman past prime -Beating Joe Frazier 2 times past prime -Beating Sonny Liston 2 times -Beating Floyd Patterson 2 times -Beating Ken Norton 2 times past prime -Generally dominating an era with an extremely stacked lineup (Chuvalo, Shavers, Terrell, etc) 5. Rocky Marciano Wins against top 50 fighters: 6 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Beaten Nino Valdes or Floyd Patterson in a final title defense Most impressive feats: -Beaten Jersey Joe Walcott 2 times, the first time by brutal KO while blinded, the second time by 1st round KO. -Beaten Ezzard Charles twice, the second time KOing him after being cut and given one last round, Ezzard Charles barely won a round -KO’d Archie Moore, Archie Moore only won the round that he got a flash knockdown that Marciano got up from in 2 seconds. -Brutal KO victories over top contenders like Rex Layne, Harry Matthews, Lee Savold and Roland LaStarza -Absolute domination of division, went undefeated, 49-0, the only undefeated heavyweight champ and the greatest undefeated streak of any heavyweight. -Highest KO ratio of any heavyweight champion -Also had the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ 4. Sam Langford Wins against top 50 fighters: 2 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Won a world title Beaten Harry Wills more often Beaten Jack Johnson Generally have less losses to inferior competition (Tut Jackson, Lee Anderson, Bill Tate, etc) Most impressive feats: -18 fight series with Harry Wills, including 2 wins and 2 ties, and most losses were past his prime. -Beat Joe Gans -Wins over Joe Jeanette, Sam McVea, Tiger Flowers, young Peter Jackson and Stanley Ketchel -Fought Barbados Demon to a draw 3. Joe Louis Wins against top 50 fighters: 4 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Permanently retired after Walcott 2 Convincingly beat Walcott in the first fight Won against Schmeling in the first fight Beaten Conn easier in the first fight Most impressive feats: -12 year 26 (famously misattributed as 25) title defenses reign, unbroken record. -Wins over Max Baer, James Braddock, Joe Walcott, and a 1st round KO over Max Schmeling. 1b. Harry Greb Wins against top 50 fighters: 5 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Retired after Tunney vs Greb 2 Beaten Tommy Gibbons a majority of the time Not have gotten KO’d by Joe Chip Generally have less losses against inferior fighters (Joe Borrell, Fay Keiser, Kid Graves, etc.) Most impressive feats: -Beat Tunney once, had 2 controversial decision losses against Tunney -Beat Tommy Gibbons 2 times, Tiger Flowers once, Maxie Rosenbloom once, Loughran multiple times, Mickey Walker once, and beat many heavyweights as a middleweight -Doing some of this while half blind 1a. Sugar Ray Robinson Wins against top 50 fighters: 8 What he could’ve done to rank higher: Beaten Jake LaMotta all times Fought Ezzard Charles, Charley Burley, etc. Retired permanently at 128-1 Been more successful at light heavyweight Challenge Heavyweights Most impressive feats: -Beating Jake LaMotta 5 times -Beating Kid Gavilan 2 times -Beating Henry Armstrong (who was past his prime) -Beating Bobo Olson 2 times past prime -Beating, and knocking out Rocky Graziano past prime -Beating Randy Turpin past prime -Going 128-1 in prime
On a side note, anybody else notice that the guy on the top right (in the hoodie) of McGrain's pfp looks like the guy from JohnThomas1's pfp
I don`t think Robi needed to beat a legend like Charles at LH, maybe they could have nmet at middle. Beaten heavies?! Charles and Marciano would have destroyed Robi at heavy.
Yeah I admit that Robinson had it rough, being caught between the eras of Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, but he needed to at least beat up some heavies like Greb and Langford did imo. Charles on Robinson's list would solidify his status as greatest of all time imo
Worth noting about Fitz (who for the record is my favourite historical fighter), I'm pretty sure Mick Dooley and Tom Lee's were heavyweights champions of Australian, though I'm not sure if they were at the time he lost to them. It does put those losses in perspective. Hall was a top fighter in his own right too. In terms of his most impressive achievements, beating Gardner, all things considered, ranks pretty high. His win over Ruhlin was also one of his best (Sharkey was a good win too, but I think the two fights against Jeffries and then fighting Ruhlin probably softened him up somewhat).
No shame in this list dude! I am sure you are not the first to put the Rock in your top 10. While you got challenged on your list (not a bad thing you challenged me on mine), you explained how you rate HW’s and why you feel HW’s deserve fairer placement in ratings. So while people disagree that is cool, I am sure you disagree with thiers. So while I use a different criteria you explained yours and try to be consistent in. I am sure if you do it again in a year or 5 it will look totally different. Not better, not worse just different! Kudo’s for putting your list out, and giving me a place to discuss boxing the last few days
Fitzsimmons is way underrated for the crazy stuff he did, he was 39 when he fought Jeffries iirc. Jeffries still called him the most dangerous man he ever met
Thank you, I've had a fun time discussing the list with you too. Yeah my list will almost definitely change in the coming years. Just a month ago I had Langford over Greb. Thank you for the support, honestly I expected a way worse reaction to my top 10 but all of you have been really fair
I love yr top 10! I think Rocky is pd fr pd top 10. Could even see him #1. All those fools that laugh, what does God let them in on lifes' questions. Great thread man. To thine own self be true.
Oh I think Langford can be considered over Greb. I think SRR Charles Langford Greb Armstrong and maybe Fitz could be put on top without stirring a major response from me.
Very nice top 10 - I like it. Personally I don't have Marciano that high and my order for the more established members of the p4p top 10 is different but I think the right names are there.
