My p4p list #10-1

Subjective lists and don’t me to be a dick but no Eder Jofre and no Mexican or Puerto Rican boxer on your top 50?

Carlos Ortiz, Eder Jofre Ortiz and Jose Napoles surely a million zillion miles above McLellan.

 

For your #1 choices, u give reasons to how they could have ranked higher. Are you suggesting they could have been up there with the mysterious Billy Pickles?

 

Jofre rated by many as the top Bantamweight of all time...is out?

Jose Napoles most consecutive defenses of the unified WW title, needs to beat a MW even though that is above his natural weight?

Carlos Ortiz most unified title wins at LW (top 5 PR fighter) beat Ismael Laguna sugar Ramos and Flash Elorde for starters.

I would say all of them warrant consideration and all would likely make my top 50 probably in the 25-40 range off the top of my head.

But again they are all opinions, but if sustaining greatness over a period of time counts for anything they at least warrant consideration.

 

Jofre lost to one man in 20 years and 78 fights. You are really going to hold those losses in Japan that strongly against him? Also the fights are debatable with many thinking he won the first one and he was weight drained and past his best. McLellan lost to Benn - a far inferior boxer.

You don’t think Carlos Ortiz’ wins over Sugar Ramos, Flash Elorde, Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown and Duillo Loi are impressive? Those men are all in the IBHOF. Pep was nowhere near the same weight class or even era of Willie Pep not sure why Ortiz would have to beat him to make the list.

Napoles in addition to being a brilliantly skilled and dominant champion for years (like Jofre) also beat Curtis Cokes, Eddie Perkins and an (admitedly) older Griffith. Far better than beating an against Jackson and a completely shot Mugabi. Also guys like Lewis and Lopez were brilliant fighters he defeated.

 

http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/napoles.html

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http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/jofre.html

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http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/ortizcarlos.html

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Why on earth are you holding it against Ortiz that he didn’t fight Pep and Saddler? Pep was retired before Ortiz turned pro and I think Saddler retired when Ortiz was about 18 or 19 and had around a dozen fights. Not to mention neither of those guys campaigned seriously as a lightweight.

 

G-man 3rd greatest MW? You must rate on imaginary H2H. Shouldn’t Benn be greater if Harada is greater than Jofre? Or Tunney greater than Dempsey (lol he is p4p but not a HW!) is Lionel Rose greater than Harada? Or Douglas greater than Tyson? You need to look at the context of thier loses and resumes.

G man was exciting no doubt (and I admittedly don’t find J Jackson as a great MW...perhaps Jr middle)...but he didn’t really accomplish anything and I don’t mean any disrespect to him or his memory of the tragic ending of the Benn fight.

 

I would recommend putting together a ATG list for each division (starting with the original 8) and then adding in the add on divisions.

Then evaluate each guy listed and factor in thier achievements, longevity and work outside of natural weight class.

For example Napoles was a great LW in the 60’s and then dominated 140 and WW...why on earth is a loss to Monzon a bigger detriment than G man losing to mediocre (an overstatement) but exciting Benn?

 

Pep’s title days were over in 1950/1951. Pep retired for 5 or 6 years and came back in the 60s when he was ancient. Would Ortiz beating a 45 year old Pep have meant anything at that point? Of course not. Like I said Pep’s championship days were well over even when Ortiz turned pro.

Like i said, Ortiz has multiple great names on his resume.