My P4P.

But those fighters were not great at the weight they fought Hopkins at -- this is crucial. Would you consider it a big accomplishment if Hopkins beat Floyd Mayweather?

P4P is just a way to compare champions and contenders from incompatible weightclasses -- it's a ranking system in which we compare Pac to Klitschko, looking at level of opposition, record, titles, etc

It's NOT an end in itself. Beating a P4P rated welterweight when you're a middleweight is not a better win than beating the #2 ranked middleweight would be.

Hopkins beat both Wright and Trinidad in weightclasses they aren't rated, aren't particularly special fighters and are in fact very beatable by Hopkins top three challengers at the weight.

If you cite Trinidad and Wright as Hopkins best wins, I dispute that entirely, they were names more than anything.

Calzaghe beat his biggest contender in Mikkel Kessler -- it's a MUCH better victory than Hopkins wins over Tito and Wright, so much in fact that they're basically incomparable.

Say Calzaghe went and beat up on Wright and Pavlik, would that be bigger in your eyes than the Kessler victory?

 

They were fairly good wins. I'm not really bothered that you have Hopkins above Joe, after all that will simply mean Joe is boosted even further come April

Fighters make belts, not the other way round. Jermaine Taylor may have been undisputed, but he also got some very questionable decisions and is rated as a bit of a fraud by many. Personally I see him as a decent fighter, nothing more. Kessler has more power, a better chin and better technique. You will find this out the hard way when either of these boys step up to 168

As for past accomplishments you may not rate Joe's opposition, but who the **** has Pavlik fought Taylor and Miranda aside? Joe has some solid wins, aside from Lacy and Kessler. There is no argument Joe wins under this criteria, as he should, he's been around longer

Sorry, Taylor isn't a big puncher. He couldn't shift LMW's previously. Infact he was even getting backed up at times. It was impressive how Pavlik came back from the brink, but there were still huge flaws in his performance compared to Joe's win over Kessler

 

Good job 361. Pretty much all the guys deserve to be on the list IMO. I'd put Calz. @ 2 & Pac @ 3. Pavlik is deserving @ #4 as he did beat two very good fighters last year, but the Taylor fight was real close to being done in round 2 and Pav. does not have that much history yet so I could also see him ranked a bit lower. Hopefully he shores up his defense and isn't a shooting star.

 

In some cases I might agree, but Abraham has a legit "dispute" to who is the champ. I'd probably pick Taylor or Pavlik ro beat him, but nobody can say that for sure.

A fighter is generally considered undisputed when HE has cleaned out the division, not beat one man (even if that one man cleaned out the division, which Taylor didn't do anyway).

 

Too True:hi:

 

Ok. :good

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny pacquaio
3. Juan M. Marquez - I don't know how you can have JMM at#7. If it wasn't for the first round, he schooled your #2 and fights at a lower weight. Since then he lost on very disputed decision but has had very impressive showings against Barrera and Juarez.
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Miguel Cotto - Just when you thought one thing, he shows you something else. The relentless body punching slugger, can actually box and possesses hand speed that made Shane Mosley wide-eyed.
6. Shane Mosley - See above at who I put at #5. Then watch their fight. If you think Cotto, who is the bigger guy, should be any further up then 1 spot then Shane I challenge you to explain why.
7. Winky Wright - Gave your #3 a hell of a fight 15lbs north of his ideal weight. Untill he loses to a 160lber, let alone a 154lber he is still high on my list.
8. Bernard Hopkins - He showed his craftiness and intelligence in his win over the much smaller Winky. He looked amazing against Tarver. But I don't forget his failed attempts to beat the then much overrated Taylor.
9. Kelly Pavlik - He had an unbelievable '07. But he is a HUGE middleweight and this is P4P, so I rate him lower than you do.
10. Israel Vasquez/Rafa Marquez - We'll see what happens in March. Both these guys are here temporarily....one will move up and one will be bumped if another KO occurs. :deal


Honorable Mention: Delahoya, Diaz, maybe some little guys, W. Klitschko, P. Williams

 

No, the Lineal champion is Erdei. The Ring champion is Hopkins. Neither is undisputed.

The other champions are undisputed that you mentioned, though some are ranked too high and you contradict yourself a bit with ranking Pavlik really high but not Calzaghe.

 

How is Floyd the Undisputed WW champion of the world??? Dont you have to own more than one belt to be that??? Not to mention fight a worthy WW adversary. Maybe he is the best P4P fighter but not the best WW.