My point in all the Chagaev gets beat by such and such threads is...

Yeah Chagaev suckish. We knew this for quite some time, and by "we" I mean "me and a few other sensible boxing fans".

 

And as it is, he's using his head movement to stay on the outside and throw nothing, right? atsch Watch the Valuev, or actually any of his bouts. He uses head movement to get inside and throw combinations. Just because Wlad didn't allow him to do that, doesn't mean he didn't try. Wladimir is just extremely ****ing hard to land on if you're smaller than 6'3". And even then it's no easy job, as guys his own height (Austin, McCline and Thompson) were all destroyed just the same.

Then again, if Tyson is the standard to measure someone up with, then 15 guys aside, all those 100.000 boxers of last century were "bums".

 

You've made some interesting guesses, but you defy the fact that Chagaev was ranked #3 in the heavyweight division in the world. There are over a thousand active heavyweights today. People can downplay the heavyweight division all they want, its had its ups and downs, but anyone highly-ranked had to earn their way there.
To say Chagaev was never a good fighter in the first place, well, it makes no sense.

 

What will you say if David Haye does not last as long as Chagaev did?

I mean by your logic it would mean that Chagaev is better than Haye right?

You are digging a huge hole for yourself on here.

 

You know the saying Style make fights? well this is one. Chageav is no slouch he's damn good and Wlads style that he's using right now makes it nearly impossible for a fighter without height to get inside. Your judging a man on one fight (the only one he has ever lost). In reality I don't see tyson of old doing well against Wlad of now, Tyson didn't deal well with someone with good jab (douglas/Lewis) and would have had fits verses Wlad.

 

at least with haye he comes to fight and at some time he will unload his explosive bombs on that chinny chump vlad...then you watch wlad fall like a sack of ****....:yep

 

would have to agree with that

 

Well, slow or not, Valuev's height requires good speed and movement for a 6'1 fighter to land punches on him.

And this stuff about Haye being a more difficult opponent for Wlad: Haye perhaps may be a better opponent and that is totally unproven. Chagaev would eat Fragomeni and Mormeck alive, opponents that Haye beat in competitive fights. Chagaev beat career heavyweights, Haye beat cruiserweights. Chagaev's opponents against Haye's opponents H2H? No comparsion. Haye has good handspeed alright. His footwork is so - so, his head movement is good but he still got hit well by opponents that Chagaev would easily dominate. Haye's power is unproven at HW.

 

I used like Chagaev at one time, over 2 years ago when he didn't have more ailments than my 75 yearold grandma. The guys best days are far behind him, his fights against Skelton and Drummond proved that even before he faced Wlad last month how weak he has become.

I still believe Wlad would of beat the version that used angles and was clever in beating Valuev in april of 07, but it would of not been as one-sided as it was.

 

Hate to admit on a site that believes every current heavyweight would be undisputed champion in past eras but I never thought Chagaev was all that great. I don't even think Chagaev would have been champ in the late 50s.

 

My first time seeing Chagaev was against Wlad. Frankly I was dissapointed. I figured a former world amatuer champion and professional beltholder would know enough to get low and weave himself in close. I'm not buying the story that Wlad "wouldn't let him".
Chagaev stood right in front of Wlad keeping his head directly in the line of Wlads straight lefts and rights. Where was the strategy, or the plan B that you'd expect from a world class fighter?
There just wasn't any spirit or vigor in Chagaevs approach. Then, when things weren't going his way, he just quit. Incidently, Chagaev quit, in effect , a few rounds before the fight was stopped. He was just going through the motions, apparently giving up on any thought of winning.
This seems to be the general mindset of todays typical heavyweight contender. Most aren't even bothering to get in top condition. Once in the ring there doesn't seem to be any great need to win. Certainly the will to win of an Ali, a Frazier, or a Marciano is absent.
Chagaev made Wlad look like Louis, Johnson, and Ali all rolled up into one. I assure you, if there was one decent heavyweight around that had a mind to really fight to win, Wlads worth would be put in a clearer perspective.