My stab at a top 50 all time p4p

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Feb 6, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jones is a reasonable pick over Monzon at MW. Jones also excelled at higher weights. The case for putting JOnes in over Monzon at MW is a clear one, though the reverse is also true. This one is borderline, I put Jones in on superior physicality.


    Just missed out. The next LHW on my LHW top 10 - he'll be in the top 65 for certain when I get around to it.
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #31
  2. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I had Arguello at #25 and Hagler at #20.

    I don't think much seperates Hagler and Monzon, no, could even understand Hagler being ranked slightly higher. I have them within one spot of each other. I don't think you'd be demoting anyone by placing them a spot lower. I think Hagler outranks Lewis, McGovern, Britton, Wilde, and Ketchell at least. A few more as well.
     
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    #32
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Thanks. I think Leonard is looking like the problem on this list at this time and i'm alert to the fact. I can't just "move him up" because people say so, but I will most certainly be looking again when I come to do a hundred.

    Like my HW list, this list is composite. I've tried to do an "all things" list, taking into account achievment, physicality, skillset, mental, intangibles etc etc. I'm happy with my heavyweight list, it's been worked up over a number of years and these men are my 3 and 4. I understand their placements won't be for everyone, but I guess that is what makes lists unique.

    That's the best I can do on this issue. Liston and Lewis will be staying put most probably.

    Of course Hollyfield comes in below Liston and Lewis at HW, but he is indisputabley #1 in Cruiser. That counts for plenty!
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #33
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ...thanks?
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #34
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That is high, high for Hagler...i'll look up your list before I do my redoux, but at the moment i'm not sold on Marvin anything like that high, and for me Monzon is the better fighter. You may have a point on Arguello. Noted.
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:

    Thanks, coming from Mr.List, that's nice.

    ...quality.
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #36
  7. RoccoMarciano

    RoccoMarciano Blockbuster Full Member

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    At least you understand some weight stuff... that was the only thing I was complimenting.
     
    RoccoMarciano, Feb 6, 2008
    RoccoMarciano, Feb 6, 2008
    #37
  8. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I know many that hold Hagler higher than that, I don't think it's that high at all. He was a fantastic, versatile fighter, with a great reign and resume.
     
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    #38
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He's a one weight fighter though, and to me he is not the clear number one or two in his division. Are there really that many people that would have Hagler higher than top twenty ALL TIME? There are some pretty astounding multi-weight champs in the history of the sport. Maybe not that many men who have been "better", but surely men who have provem it?
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #39
  10. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Based on the multi weight criteria, Floyd is better. I think it's about how good you prove to be, especially against the best, simple as that really.
     
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Feb 6, 2008
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I was surprised at how high I had Mayweather - I felt like I'd have him below Hopkins when I kicked off. But multi weight obviously isn't obviously my only, or neccesarily #1 criteria. Factor, nothing more.
     
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    McGrain, Feb 6, 2008
    #41
  12. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Well, 13 is a high rating, it's just that Benny Leonard was held in the highest esteem of all fighters in his era, a golden era. He's up there with Robinson, IMO. A classical boxer, an epic record.

    I'm no expert on his era, but I think his opposition was a deeper field than those Pep fought, and Leonard retired unbeaten as champion after 7 years. A comeback years later, when he was 35-36, was only actually ended by Jimmy McLarnin, a man on your list.

    The NO DECISION era does slightly obscure whether Leonard being "unbeaten" at lightweight for so long means what it ought to. I'm no expert, but I've been led to believe he didn't lose. He beat great lightweights, and great featherweights. He also beat the best men who held the welterweight title in the 10s, but in non-title fights.
    I think he's in the same category as Robinson, Greb, Armstrong.
    Fair enough. I chop and change my mind on Liston all the time. He's like Dempsey - he has a ton of stuff going for him, a good record of achievement but not one that is stellar from every angle, it can look empty rather easily.
     
    Sonny's jab, Feb 6, 2008
    Sonny's jab, Feb 6, 2008
    #42
  13. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pound for pound Marciano should be over Jones Jr, who is on your list, among a few others. Marciano did more things, and got the fights needed to battle he top contenders. Outside of Toney, and Hopkins, Roy didnt do much.
     
    Dempsey1238, Feb 6, 2008
    Dempsey1238, Feb 6, 2008
    #43
  14. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nice effort there McGrain.

    The fighters in my top 50 list that are absent from yours are:
    #30 Fighting Harada
    #33 Jim Driscoll
    #34 Kid Gavilan
    #38 Michael Spinks
    #42 Packey McFarland
    #43 Duilio Loi
    #45 Larry Holmes
    #46 Rocky Marciano
    #47 George Dixon
    #48 Wilfred Benitez
    #49 Aaron Pryor
    #50 Carlos Zarate

    Those on your list absent from mine are:
    #19 Stanley Ketchel
    #30 Jack Britton
    #33 Ted Kid Lewis
    #35 Ruben Olivares
    #40 Floyd Mayweather
    #41 Billy Conn
    #42 Sonny Liston
    #43 Lennox Lewis
    #44 NonPareil Jack Dempsey
    #46 Mysterious Billy Smith
    #47 Holman Williams
    #50 Bernard Hopkins


    The names on your top 50 list that really get me thinking are Jack Britton, Ted Kid Lewis and Holman Williams. All three have outstanding resumes, and they are true, tried and tested fighters. Britton and Williams are quite far fom my top 50 but I think I have to remedy that. They are too good of fighters for that.

    It also interests me that you have Mysterious Billy on your list and yet no Tommy Ryan. How close was Ryan to making your cut?

    Also, how close were some of the guys in my top 50 that are absent from yours from making your cut?
     
    sweet_scientist, Feb 6, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Feb 6, 2008
    #44
  15. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i agree with ranking benitez above pryor, he beat better fighters.
     
    brownpimp88, Feb 6, 2008
    brownpimp88, Feb 6, 2008
    #45
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