My take on Marciano Vs Ali

Better???

Power?? Marciano knocks em dead, while Fraizer got his TKO's.
Chin, Marciano was down 2 times in 49 fights, and Fraizer, well even before Foreman, Fraizer was down a few times.
Stimia, perhaps Marciano. Marciano was stronger in the late rounds than Joe was imo.
Fraizer had the greater output. And better speed. But Marciano had more thumping power. And a 2 fisted attack. He can take you out with either hand.

 

The only clear edge I'd give Marciano is right hand power. Maybe chin. Stamina is even as far as I can see. Frazier was bigger, faster, better defense, his pressure was faster and more forceful. I'd give him the edge as a body puncher as well. I also think he stopped the tougher opposition and his win over Ali is significantly better than anything on Marciano's record.

 

Outside of Ali, Fraizer didnt beat any one on the level of a Walcott, Moore or Charles imo.

Mathis? Ringo? Chavlo? Foster?? Ellis?? I dont think so.

 

Ali himself once said he didnt know if he could have beaten Marciano.He also said it was because the style he had which was similar to Fraziers was the one that gave him the most trouble,and that Marciano was better at that style then Frazier was.He also went on to say that during there computer fight when Rocky was well into his 40's that he couldnt believe how physically strong Rocky was.....

 

That is all nice and dandy but I guess Ali did not think it was necessary to put Marciano, at that time a old man, down. He was no threat to him at that particular time.

Marciano beat old man. I don't care what they accomplished afterwards they were still old by boxing standards. They fought on because they needed the dough, plain and simple. It is not that they had a great career laid out for them in another field. The human body starts to go downhill at around 30. Some will age sooner , some a little later but the hard fact is that at 36 and up your are not even close what you were 10 years ago in terms of ability.

The same old man who gave him considerable trouble until his youth , what a surprise, caught up with them.

It stands to reason that a prime Ali , a true heavyweight, is superior to Walcott/Moore in almost every department. The movement and jab will give Marciano fits, Ali does not really tire out, has easily the same chin(or better) than Rocky, great recoup powers and the same undeniable will to win. He has also speed in abundance which Rocky clearly lacks.

I see it similar playing out like the Walcott fight except Ali ain't getting caught for being tired plus his pure boxing abilities and ring generalship are several notches above Jersey Joes.

I also believe Marciano's punching power by todays standard is not so spectacluar once you take his wintermittens away and put modern gloves on him. Ali fought true , skilled big man like Foreman, Shavers (maybe not so skilled but certainly could crack) Norton, Liston etc and took their punches well. Marciano record again similar opposition is a unknown because most big man of that era were not nearly as good as a few years later.

No disrespect against Rocky intended, he did what he had to do in his time but against Ali he is going to loose his 0. He will take Patterson and Liston IMO.

BTW, no Ali exile, Joe frazier would have never gotten the belt.

 

If you are talking about the Ali after the 3rd Frazier fight, you might be right.

If your talking Ali of 66/67... get the **** outa here.

Marciano couldnt KO Ali in a dream, well not any version pre 1975 as the 3rd Frazier fight finished him as a fighter IMO.

Moore can say what he likes, he might have been hurt more by Rocky or maybe he didnt like the fact that Clay humiliated him by doing a shuffle when he was layed out or he might actually believe Rocky wins, we will never know but either way, his word isnt gospel.

It would no doubt end up a tough fight after a one sided beginning but Ali (prime Ali) would have enough early rds & take enough late rds to UD Marciano.

Ps. You do Joe Frazier an injustice, little separates Rocky & Joe other than 4 losses vs 2 ATGs that IMO would also hand Rocky his ass.


Botswana :smoke

 

Marciano was a great fighter, but Ali beat fighters that I personally rate higher at heavyweight. Marciano never faced anyone close to the caliber of prime Ali. The most comparable was Jersey Joe Walcott, who was past his best (slightly) when he fought Marciano the first time, and never as good as Ali even in his prime. Walcott outboxed Marciano for 13 rounds, Ali certainly would be able to do so for an extra 2. Marciano never KO'd anyone with anything close to Ali's chin, durabilty and recuperative powers, so I think predicting a KO win is especially bold.

Bull-****.

 

Didn't Shavers drop him? I could have swore he did.

 

Ali and Foreman were the only fighters who ever beat him.

 

Ali UD. Too fast, skilled and too good a chin. Rocky would have some moments, though.

 

You refer to Frazier having "nearly killed Ali".... is that in referance to 'the thrilla'?????

If so... WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.... Heat, humidity, 14 rounds of intense boxing against the bull-like Frazier...whilst trying to slow him down via punching, were the dominating, negative effects during that fight. Not the punishment dished by Frazier.

Throw Marciano in to replace Frazier.. Would be the ultimate test for any fighter, from any era in H/W history, to endure what Ali and Frazier had been through on that night.

 

Another point of view...... who would beat Frazier, 69-75 .. if Foreman, and Ali were not around?? Not much of a fighter???? Geez.... he has to be one of the most frightfully 'in your face' fighters ever.

 

****ing terrible thread. :rofl:rofl:rofl

 

I don't know how this myth about Frazier being "washed up" or "shot" in Manilla came about. He was past his peak, no doubt, but you don't put in a perfomance like that when washed up. It's said to be the HW title fight with most punches thrown, and this in brutal heat. A shot fighter could NEVER put up such a fast paced, intense fight, certainly not under those circumstances.

You seem to have some manlove for Tyson, and that's the only ATG I ever heard of being outclassed by a fringe contender/journeyman when in his physical prime.

And he suffered his second defeat to a guy who was viewed as shot at the time, and whose subsequent record isn't very good. So where does this leave Tyson, then?