My take on Marciano Vs Ali

Of course I can compare. I'd agree that Lewis's wins are probably somewhat better, but there's not that much between them.

Vitaly, Tyson and Holyfield are big names, but only Vitaly was even close to his prime.

Ruddock, Bruno, Morrison, Tua and Briggs were all decent contenders, as were Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, Chuvalo and MacFoster.

Botha, and McCall? Are you kidding me? McCall had been long forgotten if he hadn't beaten Lewis, and Botha's sole claim to fame is outboxing Tyson for a couple of rounds before getting KO'd.

No, they are'nt. Look above.

 

By what possible conclusion do you come to this? Frazier was quicker, applied pressure slightly better in my opinion, more intelligently. He probably worked the body better, and therefore take away Ali's speed, his most important asset. I doubt Marciano could go to the body like that.

 

You also said that Marcano's wins were a level above Frazier, and I showed that they aren't.

And Marciano isn't better in every way either. It's true that he had big power in both hands, while Frazier's main weapon was the left. He also had a chin that never was seriously dented, while Frazier's was. But Frazier also faced far bigger punchers. I'm not convinced that Marciano even met as hard a puncher as Bonavena.
Finally, Marciano wasn't as slow a starter as Frazier.

But Frazier, on the other hand, was quicker as well as 20 lbs heavier (and you seem to put a lot of stock in that). He also had better precision in his punches IMO. Rocky was also more prone to cuts, and this could be a problem against Ali.

Their main assets, heart and stamina, were more or less equal.

 

Like I said, Frazier took away Ali's speed with a ferocious body attack. He was also susceptible to the left hook more than the wild overhand rights Marciano would through.

Now try and tell me Marciano had a better body attack and better left hook than Frazier.

 

Can I have some of what you are smoking? Seems to take you to a nice, fuzzy place.

No HW has ever put greater pressure on opponents than Frazier. He was also unsurpassed in terms of stamina and will to win (as was Marciano).

Have you seen him keeping getting to his feet against Foreman? Or him not wanting to quit against Ali, despite being nearly killed?

If that isn't will to win, what is?

 

That's Bull****! That's total ****ing bull****! What the ****?!

 

The fact that Marciano had a great chin, and didn't fight any really explosive punchers, is the reason that you can't rate his heart above Frazier's.

Joe went in with probably the biggest heavyweight banger of all-time in George Foreman, yet came out and pressured him from the start. He got put down early, got up, down twice more in the 1st round, got up both times. Back in the corner rearing to go out for the second round, down 3 times, up each time but stopped by the ref.

Joe ate right hands and combinations from Muhammad Ali for 14 rounds in blistering heat in Manilla and was almost dead on his feet, yet was begging with Futch not to stop the fight at the end of the 14th, despite being on his way to getting killed in the ring and exhausted, not to mention with a badly swollen right eye.

Joe also fought since 1964 with only partial vision in his left eye. That meant in the Manilla fight, he couldn't see any of Ali's right hands, so they all caught him unexpectedly and unprepared, and when his right eye closed, he could barely see anything.

That's heart.

 

That's supposed to read "Buster Mathis". Mispelled. :-((

 

Walcott, Moore and Charles were NOT shot. Ali was shot vs Holmes. Moore went on to win 49 more times after his lost to Marciano. Charles was ruin by Marciano, and Walcott decided to retire.
But at the time they fought Marciano, they were BETTER than the Jerry's, the Ellis,and the Chevlo's Fraizer fested on. Way better. The only fighter Fraizer beat, that should be rank over Marciano's comp is Ali. But one win over Ali, does not make a better comp with the combin forces of Walcott, Charles and Moore.

 

Nose split in half?
Getting the bejesus beating out of Walcott, and fighting blindly for 5 rounds vs Walcott.
Standed Toe to Toe with Charles in thrilling 15 rounds.
Thats heart imo. There on the same level.

 

I don't agree that You can't rate Marciano over Frazier as far as heart goes. Have you seen the photo of Marciano's nose vs Charles?. It was literally split in half and the men kept coming. Marciano's Stamina was unequalled. If any one came close it was Joe Though. both men could throw punches for every second of every round. I love boxing for just this reason. There is no right or wrong answer just opinion. We can argue till the end of time won't make a bit of difference. The only thing we can agree on is they were all great fighters.

Click photo for a larger image

 

I'm one of those people who thinks that Marciano's boxing skills are underated. However I think Ali would beat him.

 

Did Marciano ever come close to death in the ring, and still keep fighting in the blistering heat?

Did Marciano ever fight while probably 85% blind?

Did Marciano fight his whole career with one eye?

Did Marciano ever step toe-to-toe and pressure the biggest heavyweight puncher in history?

Did Marciano ever get put down 6 times in one fight, and get up each time knowing he had to face the biggest HW puncher of all-time?

 

I'm not saying Marciano doesn't have heart, but I can't see the case for saying he has more than Frazier or equal to.

He never faced a puncher as big as Frazier for one thing.