My take on Marciano Vs Ali

Floyd Patterson actually had an easier time with Archie Moore in '56 than Maciano had with Moore in '55.......:good

MR.BILL

 

Hi Mr Bill,

You're correct, however styles make fights and Moore always had
problems with slick fast boxers. Ezzard Charles beat Moore 3 times and
Charlie Burley also beat him. Harold Johnson gave him tough fights
(though Moore did beat Johnson).

Moore did well against heavyweight puncher types - Nino Valdes,
Bob Baker to name a few.

Using opponents as barometers can be tricky. Example - Joey Maxim
beat Patterson. Would Maxim have beaten Rocky?

I have great respect for Floyd Patterson. In fact, Floyd's family
lived in Mount Vernon, NY and my uncle was friends with Floyd's
younger brother Jerome.

I think that in 1956, Rocky would have still been too tough for
Floyd. Matter of fact, Floyd really started to fight better after
the Liston losses and gave Jimmy Ellis a rough fight, beat Oscar
Bonavena, Henry Cooper, Eddie Machen and George Chuvalo.
Even in his last pro fight, which he lost via cut eye TKO to Ali,
Floyd fought fairly well and landed his share of punches.

A post-Liston Floyd (1965-1967) might have actually given (1956)
Rocky a much tougher fight. Floyd seemed to be boxing better
later in his fight career and tightened up his defense a bit.

By the way, what about a mythical matchup between Marciano
and Bonavena?


Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

I like Marciano over Ali, I think he had a combination of 2 fisted power,relentless agression,and Stamina, I see Ali taking the lead first few rounds,slowing down in the middle rds and Marciano coming only fiercely in the last 5 of 15 and having the RSC in the 14th or 15th round in Marciano's best effort. I think Ali would make him rise to the occasion but I think its a bad fight for Ali

 

Hi Bummy,

If anyone could stop Ali, it would have to be Rocky or Joe Louis.

Of all the heavyweight champs, I think that Gene Tunney, Joe Louis
and Rocky were the ones capable of beating Ali.

Though I doubt that Tunney would KO Ali, I think that Tunney could
possibly pull off an upset.

Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

Ali has stated clearly.... and its clearly quoted in countless books. The exhaustion he felt was the closest thing to death. He was spent. Totally spent. AS I'd stated in the previous post, the fight was intense, the heat/humidity was intense, Frazier was intense.... Frazier was nearly Killed!!!!!!!!!!!..

In the Thriller, Ali took less punishment than FOTC.. Therfore, the combination of heat/humidity, the constant battle to stop the bull-like Frazier, the intensity of Frazier and the physicality of the fight took it toll on Ali. Joe DID NOT nearly kill Ali through his power punches that night. The relentless efforts of both men took effect. I made this quite clear in the FIRST thread also.
Once again.... please tell me which round Joe won... in a punishing manner. When did Ali look seriously groggy???? When was Ali completely fighting by instinct?? Rounds 13 and 14 might have taken more out of Ali than any previous round, just through the sheer volume of punches Ali threw.

Dont compare Marciano to Ali.

 

the Moorer that had already been Destroyed by marciano I would say he wasnt exactly the same afterwords even thow he managed to have a decent career afterwards

 

Moore came back to have a WICKED fight in '58 against Yvon Durelle.... That was likely the Ring's fight of the year for 1958........ Archie Moore was NOT shot from his two KO losses to Marciano and Patterson in 1955 & '56.... However, Moore was aging in years...... Conflicting records indicate that Archie Moore was either born in '13 or '16.... So, by the time he fought Marciano and Patterson, Archie Moore was indeed 40ish.....:bbb

MR.BILL

EXTRA:

Moore was washed up in 1962 when he fought Clay / Ali in Los Angeles..:roll:

 

Ali would have to fight the full 3 minutes of every round against The Rock..he never did that...you had to kill Marciano in order to beat him...hurting you no matter where he hits you...very high workrate.....great power and stamina....great chin....best conditioned fighter ever...you may have a fight plan against Marciano...but when he starts to impose his will...you end up trying to survive...and your fight plan goes out the window...you don't beat a fighter like this with a left jab over 15 rounds...Ali would have no time to wave to the crowd..or do the shuffle in this dream fight!!!

 

I agree, the busier handed fighters were the ones that gave Ali trouble...I think Louis and Marciano had the ability to stop Ali.....and Walcott, Tunney would cause him problems with movement and enough speed to punch with him

 

Tunney..... Never.

Marciano.......Unlikely. perhaps in '78. Slow moving Marciano would have found difficulty tagging Clay of '63. Only the carelessness of Clay by then, would allow Marciano the chance. '64-'77 would have been fruitless for Marciano, never a single hope in those years.

Louis.... As above.

 

100% can disagree. All the footage I have.... every biography I've read, all posts on this site, any opinions or contensious offerings having been suggested, will not dictate my personal opinion regarding the outcome of these two in a potential match up.

None of your opinions regarding 'this particular thread' seem to have been taken seriously either. HMMMMM!!!!!

 

Hi Flamengo,

Take a look at some Tunney film clips. Tunney was very fast,
and hit well. Tunney also had a solid chin and was a smart fighter.

I think that Tunney had the style to give Ali fits. Tunney fought
Tommy Loughran and had Loughran down and Tunney won the
newspaper decision. Loughran was a fast fighter like Ali.

I know that Loughran was a Lightheavyweight and Ali was a much
larger fighter. But, I'm just trying to show that Tunney could fight
well against quick boxers like Ali.

Take care.

Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

Ive gotta say the opening post was bad, it wasnt the 'Frazier not a great HW' that got me as much as the claim that Frazier was past it in Manilla but there was no comment that Ali was either.

Anyhow, imo Ali would win the fight, im no major Ali fan, but i think that he is, in terms of h2h, the best HW ever, and thats unbiased. However, i would like to say that Rocky's chances are imo not as slim as some would like to make out. People are looking at the fact we have a come forward guy, and then Ali, and thinking that spells doom for the technically deficient slugger. But if we look at Ali (not other mobile boxers with similar styles, but Ali himself), then we see his problems were with guys who were awkward come forward guys, Ken Norton did it by leaning over in crazy ways but plodding forward all the while and throwing some wild shots, though his jab was on also, which Marciano lacks. Frazier did it by ducking and crouching combined with unrelenting pressure. Marciano has similar traits to things that both of these guys did in THESE BOUTS. I think the bout would be good, but at the end of the day, if both men are in their absolute peaks, i will pick Ali.

On the subject of Frazier and Marciano, its hard to say, you could say Frazier was bettter on tangibles. But in terms of effectiveness which imo is the major deciding factor, you could go for either man, but for me its Marciano, that will to win also, is massive.