My take on Marciano Vs Ali

Very interesting thread you gentlemen have going here. It is too bad, however, that some are excessively devoted to particular figures in boxing history for that can compromise what would otherwise be interesting contributions.

What can "too slow" mean? What can "technically deficient" mean when we are talking about a man whose KO record is among the highest ever and who won all of his contests? Or do you mean he is slow as measured by some equipment? Or do you mean what you can oberve?

Flamengo, did you continue to observe the fights you say you have seen and notice that Marciano won them all? What do you think the losers would say to you when you tell them that Mariciano was slow? Or technically deficient?

Do you come back to say that all those fighters weren't as good as Ali? Ali was the supreme dancer and mover! And on his best day when he wasn't fooling around he would avoid the punches of the Rock and dance and jab the Rock to pieces?

That is so much nonsense especially given the fact that Ali lost a few critical fights. He has his flaws after all. And that seems to be the point of many, like myself, who believe Ali would in the final analysis lose this one.

What is the deciding issue, it seems to me, is the consistency of the man who is fighting and the proof of that is nothing but what we can see of him. One thing you can say of Marciano is he was very consistent.

We can praise an "ideal" boxing style all we want. We can conjure up visions of how one style defeats another. Ali's style, which is admirable, defeats a Marciano style so many think. But then we are talking in abstractions. No confirmation comes to settle "ideal" scenarios. So one can just as easily imagine a slugging style defeating a boxing style.

Only the real life consistency of blood and bones and heart matters. And there Marciano has the edge. That is not to say that Marciano might not have failed to consistently push thru his fighting agenda as he always did fooling his opponents into believing he is slow and technically deficient. And which case he would lose to a number of good fighters like Ali.

But one thing we can say about the Rock is that he was consistent. I am on solid ground when I say he would take this fight with Ali.

 

I'm not going to say Rocky would beat a prime Ali, it's a very close fight IMO, but Rocky is the one fighter head to head where I would not pick Ali to outright win. Rock's style, like Frazier, would pose a big problem for Ali. He is less predictable than Frazier, and has big power in both hands. It would be a fantastic fight

 

hahaha Ali didn't want to quit against Liston cuz of fighting him but cuz he felt there was cheating going on as he was blind and couldn't see. Hard to fight someone if you can't see and especially an ATG like Liston LOL. You crack me up everytime

 

I'd love to have see this fight and depending on what day you ask me, I'll choose a different winner. Its too close.

Another great one would've been Ali vs. prime Walcott. Not the most exciting fight but would be a very difficult one for Ali.

 

Hi Groove,

I understand your point. Though, please give Marciano some props
as well. In the first Walcott fight, Marciano was blinded for several
rounds by a substance that got into his eyes.

Rocky also had one of his nostrils torn open by a punch (or accidental
elbow) from Ezzard Charles. Rocky had no quit in him.


Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

A 1967 version of Ali would box Marcianos head of for 15 rounds

 

Marciano was super tough - no doubt about that but i think the greater skill will tell in this bout - Ali's superior movement and extra reach advantage and being a straight long puncher i think it's a UD win for Ali. We can speculate on the Clay quit job cuz it never happened. He was only 22 and in the biggest most important fight of his life - for the heavyweight title and against a killer in the ring. I think Clay just panicked and Dundee calmed him down and he did continue. Clay could've stopped and quit if he wanted when he went out for round 5. He only had to tell the ref himself and it didn't happen.

 

Hi! I just got to raz you, since you being such an ignorant sod and all.

Your big manloves: Tyson and Lewis got beat by journeymen when they were in their PRIME, something that never happened to Ali. So I suppose they are extremely far from unbeatble then.

And if we're going to look for flaws in character, Tyson would be a lamb to the slaughter against Rocky. He was a ****ing Concorde in terms of flaws in basic construction.

I know you're trolling mostly, but all in all you're a semi-ignorant punk kid and has to be told off in order to develop some kind of character. So see this as a gift from me to you. :thumbsup

 

Ali was hurt vs the busier guys...Jones,Banks,Cooper,Frazier,Norton,Young, but look at the list..no major names or big men...the Bigger slower guys with small gas tanks..foreman, liston, Ali could handle but stamina guys with busy hands got to him...and Marciano and Louis had 2 very dangerous hands...Marciano's stamina was sick

 

Marciano is a fortunate fighter. He beat a bunch of geriatrics. His championship years, hardly impressive. Had he faced Charles 3 years earlier, nye nye Rocky. Had he faced Walcott 3 years earlier, nye nye Rocky. Had he faced Louis 3 years earlier, nye nye Rocky. His timing/enterance into the top 10 was precise, and fortunate.

At 5' 10", Marciano would have been towered ower by Ali at 6' 3". I've said before, only between '63 and '77 would Marciano had a show against Ali. The ROCK was defencively inadequate to contend with Ali's jab. Too often off balance, ducking into ridiculous positions, taking his eyes off his opponent. Just go through the 'defensive moves' movie that Pontius posted on this site... Laughable defence. His crouch would be another sick joke against Ali... why not crouch, and make the height differance 9"s. Crouching for the hope avoiding jabs, right hands, hooks of upper cuts from Ali would, again, be stupid. He loved these competitions, the game playing, the challenge to take shots and demoralise his opponent.

I love Joe Louis, the guy was incredible. I love the way he could stand there, transferring his power.. punch after punch... What was Joe like at chasing????? BAD BAD BAD. All Louis's forward movement was limited. Billy Conn boxed his ears off for 14 rounds. Literally won every round brfore mixing it , and going to sleep. I cant see Louis catching Ali, whilst on the back foot, circling, changing direction.. in and out... jab jab...just picking his way through. I can not see Louis contending with this for 15 rounds. Ali would mix it with Joe at any time. He relished the opportunity as stated before.

 

Hi Bummy,

Great analysis. Also, Billy Daniels was giving Ali hell in their fight.
Daniels hit Ali often. In order for an opponent to have a chance
against Ali, pressure and stamina were paramount.


Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

Personally, I think people often make too much out of Lewis's losses. But I just used them to show how easy it is to find flaws and magnify them in every fighter's record.

But you probably already know this and just troll around a bit. It's your prerogative I suppose. But if you're serious with your badly messed up analysis, then you should feel absoluteley free to express it exclusively on General.:good