My take on Marciano Vs Ali

If one knew little of boxing and read True Writers posts, one would think Joe Frazier was a journeyman that edged a win over a great in Ali.

 

now posters are talking about Billy Daniels v Clay as part of a peak Ali v Marciano thread LOL. These threads always turn into a complete and utter joke. What the **** as a teenage Clay got to do with it - we should be talking about a 25 year old peak Ali. Who the **** was Marciano fighting when he was a teenager.

 

As far as the match-up goes, in my opinion, this isn't as close as people make it out to be. I love Marciano, I think he was a great champion and I cherish him for proving how valuable fitness, character and a good work ethic can be. Of course he was more than even that, with a murderous right hand and ability to diligently pressure his opponent even when absorbing hellacious punishment (coming forward with a split nose seems nothing short of torture to me).

But to perhaps unfairly simplify this fantasy match, I think Marciano would have a tough time landing, and I think Ali couldn't miss. Stoppage on cuts.

 

ali ud

and frazier is an atg by the way

 

Its odd how overated Ali is and how underated Marciano is.......put both greats in the ring and you would see a battle of wills by the best....Still I see Marciano getting to him late like Frazier did but only the right hand of Marciano playing a big part and his awkward rythym breaking style causing Ali to be hit a lot more than expected...Marciano's underated defence and counter ability would be exhibited...In a highly competitive fight but Marciano takes the 2nd half of the fight with each round and the RSC in the 14th or 15th in a classic

 

Ali in a well contested UD15.

 

I agree.

 

There are two scenerios that are most likely here, if we have a permissive 1950s style referee who isn't a sissy about blood.

1. Ali's ring savvy is operating on all 8 and he knows to stay at a distance, throw straight shots, step out and move laterally to force Marciano to turn and reset. Marciano slips and charges, but cannot land more than a few shots at a time because Ali is gone. Ali arrives at a decision, though is punished for a few rounds.

2. Ali falls victim to the illusion that Marciano is slow and ponderous enough to be outpunched. Ali takes risks with dizzying combinations and Marciano takes advantage of these opportunities to inflict damage on Ali's ribs and hips which eventually slow down his legs. Marciano damages his arms as well, eventually slowing the shots down. This allows Marciano to bull Ali into the ropes and stun him several times with overhand rights and of course, left hooks. Marciano takes a close decision.

.......................
Marciano always crowded guys with superior skills and mobility and took away their game by forcing them to adapt to his strength, power, aggression, and unrelenting pressure. That style is precisely the right one to deal with Ali, who's modus operandi was to establish his tempo and rythym behind a demon jab. Ali did best when he was allowed to be the maestro. Marciano was the bull in that concert hall. He will not be the straight man on Ali's stage and will get more aggressive (albeit controlled) as he begins to lose rounds.

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Charley Goldman outdid himself with Rocky. He took what conventional boxing wisdom believed were physical disadvantages and made them work for Marciano. The style he formed in Rocky revolved around two things: power and stamina. And those assets are always hard to overcome. Angleo Dundee was Goldman's pupil. Don't count on either he or Ali to have a superior strategy going in. Ali will fight the way he always did. Goldman and Marciano will have a strategy specifically designed to overcome Ali assets, which were both magnificent... and predictable.

PS/ Marciano beats any version of Ali after the 1960s.

 

Hi Groove,

I just pointed out the Daniels fight to illustrate that pressure fighters
gave Ali trouble. If you have watched the film of the Daniels fight,
two points are evident:

1) Daniels was NOT intimidated by Ali's talk or theatrics;

2) Daniels threw lots of punches and landed on Ali.

Point of clarification - Though Ali was only 20 years old at the time
of the Daniels fight, he had a long amateur career.

Second point - Daniels pressured Ali much more effectively than Liston
or Cleveland Willams did.

Heavier fighters, with the exception of Ken Norton, were too ponderous
to pressure Ali effectively.

Groove, remember styles make fights - I feel that Max Schmeling
had a style that would also trouble Ali.

Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

Well said! :good

To many of these jokers have lots of opinions based on very little knowledge.

 

would someone say that after B-Hop beat Pavlick or Archie Moore(on his best win streak ever & prime) went on fighting Ali 8 years after Rocky and getting hit quite a few times by the Mongoose...Walcott was a master, Charles was a year older than Marciano and Moore,Walcott Charles beat all the younger men in the division, you fight the best not the youngest and thats what Rocky did (5 #1 contenders & 1# 2 contender)....but naysayers will always find something to say

Rocky was 5 '11 not 5"1o like it matters...James Toney is 5"9 and 40 and he holds his own with the BIG Boys.......and if Ali mixed with Louis it would be a mistake, Louis had a hook better than Cooper and quicker and shorter than Frazier but he had a few versions of a right hand and a killer jab, I too am a big fan of Ali's but he was a man alot of his fans think he was Superman and are not realistic

 

At the end of the day, Rocky fought Charles and Walcott at the end of their career. Most know except you that Charles, Moore and Walcott had all better years before Rocky fought them. Look at the records. Rocky arrived as a an older guy to win the heavyweight championship (Tyson 20, Ali 22, Foreman 23 etc) at the right time. Ali had more defences than Rocky ever did before his exile.

 

Well I think that version of Walcott would give any version of Ali a hard time and Ezzard Charles at 32 in the 1st Marciano fight had one of his best nights and Archie Moore 8 yrs later fought and landed on Ali....Younger fighters like Harold Johnson, Bob Saterfield, Nino Valdez, Bob Baker,Coley Wallace, were eliminated SOUNDLY by the older guys.....All of Marciano's opponents were better than anything Ali faced before and after Liston and until Frazier so we dont really know if Ali would have been undefeated had ge faced those versions........Most know except you that Cooper,Jones,Banks,Foley,Terrel,Chuvalo,Williams were not in the same class as Walcott,Charles,Moore,Layne,Lastarza in fact a young Williams 31-1 was stopped in 3 bt Satterfeild who was ko;d in 2 by Charles