My Take on Marciano

I think Rocky Marciano would stop Floyd Mayweather.

 

Kimbo Slice beat up on a bunch of overweight, half drunk neighborhood tough guys and bullies but whom I believe would have been outright annihilated by even a much smaller top pro like Marvin Hagler.

 

Smaller and worse would've beaten them.
Shawn Porter would've beaten the HGH out of prime Kimbo.

 

Valuev.

 

Toss up!

 

In my opinion Marciano beats Frazier.I base this on two handed power which Rocky possessed and Joe did not.It,s very possible Joe's extra weight and speed would turn the trick however.

 

This perfectly encapsulates and defines Rocky, but some just will not accept it and therefore those who agree with it must be haters.

 

I think Evander beats him,the jury is still out on Usyk.

 

"undersized"

Not in the context of his era or earlier eras. How does his opposition stack up in size to earlier champions. I got these weights from fightsrec which lists weights. I can't vouch for them, but assume they are ballpark.

Of Marciano's 49 opponents, 5 weighed above 210 lbs, or 11%. 11 weighed over 200 lbs, or 22%. 24 weighed over 190 and 41 over 180. 5 were listed in the 170's (3 had no weights given). His lightest opponent was Bob Jefferson at 172, but Rocky weighed only 178 for that fight himself.

Marciano had weight pulls of 10 or more lbs. three times. 10 lbs against Harry Bilzerian in Rocky's 2nd fight. 12 over John Edwards in Rocky's 3rd fight, and 10 lbs over Harry Haft in another early fight.

Giving up weight is another thing. Marciano gave up 20 or more lbs. 8 times or in 16% of his fights.
Humphrey Jackson--71 lbs.
Bill Wilson--39 lbs.
Johnny Shklor--30 lbs.
Joe Louis--29 lbs.
James Connerly--28 lbs.
Bill Hardeman--25 lbs.
Gilley Ferron--20 lbs.
Artie Donato--20 lbs.

Marciano gave up 10 or more lbs. 18 times in 49 fights, or 37% of his fights. He was the lighter man in 31 of his listed fights.

How does this stack up with some earlier champions? See next post:

 

Gene Tunney would be the least impressive regarding the size of his opposition. He fought only one man above 200 lbs (the 5' 10" Tom Heeney at 203) and in fact only one above 195.

Max Schmeling--fought 8 men above 200 lbs or 11% of his opposition. The heaviest was Ben Foord at 207. Max went 4-3-1 against plus 200 lbers.

Jim Jeffries--fought 5 men in the 23 listed fights at 200 lbs or above, or about 22%. One, Jack Munroe, is sometimes listed above 210 at 216, although there is some dispute about his being that heavy.

Joe Louis--fought 9 men or about 13% of his 71 fights against men over 210. 19 or 27% against men over 200 lbs. Had an outstanding for his era 6 fights against men over 230 lbs. Only Galento was that heavy because of fat.

Jack Dempsey & Jack Johnson fought some big guys and some very small ones and are hard to pin down. Dempsey had nine listed fights against guys over 200 lbs, but there must be more. It is by no means clear his over 200 or 210 lb opposition on a percentage basis would be ahead of Marciano, and is almost certainly behind Louis. What separates him from Marciano is that he fought Willard which gives him a giant killer reputation.

What about the average weight of challengers in championship defenses--

Jeffries--191 (172 smallest--won title from 167 lb man)
Johnson--202 (170 smallest--won title from 168 lb man)
Dempsey--189 (172 smallest--won title from 245 lb man)
Marciano--192 (185 smallest--won title from 196 lb man)
Louis--203 lbs (smallest 174 lb. Won title from 197 lb. man)

My conclusion--Marciano's opposition was not undersized in the context of the time. All of the old-timer's opposition is undersized if compared to the opposition of decades later or even half a century later.

 

Very good data. I do think Billy Conn was 168 vs Louis. While I certainly think weight means a lot, 180 vs. 205 often comes down to who had more skill and power. However 180 vs. 230 is a different story if both are skilled.

The change in rounds from 25 to 15 allowed fighters to be heavier.

 

Eh? Walcott and Charles certainly were not shop worn in their 1st fights with Marciano, the films show this.

 

Charles was shopworn lmao

 

You can't say that watching their first fight. Have you?