My take on Tyson over Frazier

Tyson beat many greats in both the 80s and 90s, as well as the 2000s a little. But I rank Frazier higher as a fighter, and Tyson higher as a champion, seeing as he accomplished more as champ. Tyson would have beaten many of the guys Frazier took rounds to beat in minutes, but that's due to differing styles. Two greats, but Frazier greater than Tyson.

 

Styles make fights, and Frazier and Tyson are not the same fighters, despite their similarity in stature. Also, your bias shines through in cherry-picking where Tyson did better than Frazier, but not where Frazier did better than Tyson.

For the record, I've always said that Tyson would blast out Frazier early and probably easily a la Foreman; but I also think Tyson would not give Ali the same kind of trouble that Frazier did. Frazier was a more active fighter; and, perhaps critically, did not stop punching once bigger guys clinched him and leaned on him. This is perhaps Tyson's fundamental flaw when he's fighting against bigger guys who tied him up inside, from Smith to Lewis. He had a tendency to implore referees for help, rather than keep punching with a free hand or work his way to get both hands free. I never understood why Tyson never worked to improve his in-fighting, given that that was a favorite tactic of his opponents when he got inside. Also, psychologically Frazier was stronger. He weathered a lot of early straights to work his way inside; I am just not sure Tyson has it in him to take a beating and to keep coming without immediate results. I wouldn't be surprised if Tyson gets frustrated at some point, freaks out, and does something to get himself disqualified - perhaps even intentionally.

But it worked for Holyfield and Douglas (perhaps we should exempt Lewis and others since those versions of Tyson were shot).

Look, I am not a Tyson hater; in fact, for an older guy, I give Tyson more credit than most of my peers. But there is no way he is beating Ali, even the Madison Square Garden version of Frazier I.

Edit: If anything, I am an Ali "hater" - albeit for reasons that have nothing to do with his boxing skills.

 

I put Frazier a bit higher in terms of accomplishments, and Tyson higher in a hypothetical head-to-head.

 

Finally, some support! I prefer Frazier, but styles definitely make fights is cliche, yet 100% true statement. Ali is the kind of guy who would bock Tyson's socks off (even though he never wore any), yet guys like Frazier would beat Ali to pulp, yet Frazier would probably punish Frazier for starting slow. It all goes around evenly.

 

I am a big fan of Frazier but it doesn't matter how slow or fast he starts vs Tyson.

Tyson has faster hands and will get there first. Tyson also has more power. Frazier would need a miracle to survive 4 rounds vs Tyson.

As far as Tyson vs Ali, Tyson at his peak may beat the Manilla Ali but not the FOTC version.

 

I'd pick Holmes and Liston to beat Tyson as well for the same reason. Outside those two and Ali, I would be tentative about anyone else beating him (Foreman probably, but not sure, etc.).

 

I agree with everything above.

 

Not a biased post at all lol

 

I agree with Holmes, Liston, and Ali beating him but I'd also favor Foreman confidently as well.

I'd also favor Holyfield, Frazier, and Louis but not as confidently as the above men.

50-50 Lewis.

I'd make Dempsey a live underdog.

 

Here's the deal with any possible outcomes of 70s hw vs. Tyson:
1. Ali: Tyson gives Ali plenty of fits. Power is no problem to deal with for Ali, but in Tyson Ali has a fast and high-stamina puncher. But Ali beat much bigger punchers than Tyson. Ali did have the power to knockout Tyson, but cuz Tyson's got good stamina, this one goes the distance with an Ali decision victory.
2. Foreman: Either George wins or Tyson wins. If it's toe-to-toe George wins hands down. Tyson could take a couple good slams, but doesn't have the chin of Foreman, and would get knocked out in about 5 rounds or less. If Tyson drew on his superior boxing ability, he could win the decision or maybe knock Foreman out. But Foreman is boss for five rounds. Foreman by knockout is more likley.
4. Norton: Although I heavily favor Norton to Tyson as a fighter, styles do make fights, and Norton always froze up against punchers. I could see Norton outboxing Tyson before he outslugs him and wins a decision, but that's a small chance. More likley Norton freezes up against Tyson and goes in 4 rounds.
5. Shavers: It's hard to say. If Shavers starts slow, Tyson would easily knock his block off, as Quarry proved if you bomb Shavers fast. If both come out slugging, it's a toss up. Shavers is stronger, but Tyson is tougher. 50/ 50 imo.
6. Lyle: Lyle outboxes and outslugs Tyson no matter what, but has to come of the floor and get pounded in the process.
7. Young: Young was incredibly tough, fast, and clever. Sluggers NEVER did well vs. Young in his prime. Foreman got whipped, Lyle got whipped, and Young was supposedly robbed in the draw with Shavers, and he gave pressure fighter/ puncher Norton all he could handle. Young would make Tyson mad, get hurt bad, but ultimately outspeed Tyson.
8. Holmes: Competitive fight for 10 rounds. Larry establishes the jab and dances. He gets tired after 4 rounds, gets flat-footed, Tyson tags him. After several back-and-forth rounds with no victor, Larry wins a close decision through his awesome jab, superior stamina, and superior chin. Larry often outpunched many awesome sluggers and brawlers in the 70s, 80s, and even the 90s.
9. Leon Spinks: I love Spinks. He's made for Tyson. Both start at an incredibly fast pace, winging it. Leon was tougher, but not as strong, but Leon was not inhumanly tough, Tyson bombs Leon out. Leon was amazingly wild in 1st rounds, even more than Tyson, and he outslugs Tyson in the round. In Round 2 Tyson starts taking control, but Leon takes a little while to go, usually. In Round 3 Tyson drops Leon, the beating gradually grows worse, over in Round 4 or 5, I'd say.

 

I think Tyson would put Ali on the deck early. His quickness could be shocking early. Ali would adjust. Buy time, pack with his jab and fast cross. I dont see Tyson having patience and the maturity to invest in the body attack round after round even in rounds he's losing.
Ali would take him into deep water and drown him.

 

I'm not sure if Liston could have beaten Mike. But Joe had too much heart for Mike to do anything but eventually give up (just like he did against Holyfield and Lewis). Joe would go down, but he'd keep getting up. Mike wouldn't know how to handle that imo.

I agree with Holmes and Ali beating Mike in their primes, absolutely. Louis likely, Foreman 70s in two rounds.

But Mike might have beaten prime Bowe, Briggs, Vitalij, perhaps 90s Foreman, certainly would have beaten Patterson and Johannssen, Norton, imo Dempsey too.

 

Liston would intimidate Tyson more than other heavy (by Tyson's own admission), not to mention a huge stylistically advantage. Liston hits harder, is a better boxer, is better adapting, better both on the inside and outside, has a 13 inch reach advantage, etc. I also believe he was more durable (though Tyson was no slouch here). I personally couldn't find a worse opponent for Tyson than Liston.
I used to think Frazier could beat Tyson but now I'm not so sure. Tyson is much bigger, stronger, more powerful, and faster than Frazier. I don't know what will happen when Frazier comes at Tyson. I still lean towards Frazier (because I feel Frazier's superior durability, grit, and defense will get him through rough moments) coming back and taking Mike out late but it's 55-45 at best.
Other than those two, I see Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, and maybe Holyfield (Holyfield is my 4th favorite, but I'm not sure he won't come out of the losing end of a slugfest should he get into one which he would be all to comfortable doing.) beating Tyson which puts him in pretty elite territory H2H. That being said, I feel he's massively overrated these days by some and a ****-poor human being.

 

Muhammad Ali never spent time in prison, he appealed his 1967 Draft evasion conviction to the U. S Supreme Court and was exonerated on June 28 1971. He was, however banned from boxing from 1967- 1970, but no prison time. Tyson did prison time.