My ten greatest heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011.


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  1. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I pick entirely on historical impact. Not on head to head guesses.

    1-----Joe Louis
    2-----Muhammad Ali
    3-----Rocky Marciano
    4-----Tom Cribb
    5-----Jack Johnson
    6-----Lennox Lewis
    7-----Jim Jeffries
    8-----John L Sullivan
    9-----Jack Dempsey
    10----Wladimir Klitschko

    I am brand new on the board. My board name is Edward Morbius. My real name is Joseph Ellsworth and I live in rural western Iowa. I am 63 years old and have always been a boxing fan. I just put up this thread to sort of introduce myself.

    I have been reading through some of your old threads and found several fascinating (Where should Dempsey rate? Jeffries? etc) as well as the factual data given by such as hhascup. Wonderful. And all the great films. Thanks for all of you who posted those.

    Anyway, hello and I hope we enjoy exchanging viewpoints.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #1
    heerko koois, Unforgiven and Joe E like this.
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    One of the more interesting lists I have seen.

    Cribb, Sullivan, Ali and Klitschko on the same list.

    What are the criteria?
     
    janitor, Sep 12, 2011
    janitor, Sep 12, 2011
    #2
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Welcome to the forum.:hi:
     
    mcvey, Sep 12, 2011
    mcvey, Sep 12, 2011
    #3
  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "What are the criteria?"

    1. Meeting and beating the best of his time (which is why Dempsey ended up that low)

    2. Dominance (did he prove himself better than his opposition-which is why Marciano ended up that high)

    3. Longevity

    4. Historical impact
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #4
  5. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good list. Though I don't think Marciano should rank so high.
     
    Asterion, Sep 12, 2011
    Asterion, Sep 12, 2011
    #5
  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Marciano is the only heavyweight champion to sweep his opposition, except perhaps Henry Pearce, whose record is probably incomplete. I think that earns Marciano a pretty high place.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #6
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Wladimir has met neither Vitali or Lewis who are the best of his time. He didn't even manage Holyfield.
     
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    #7
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay point, except it seems unfair to criticize him for not fighting Vitali, and Lennox was the champion who didn't defend against him when he was the #1 contender.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He probably belongs where you have him relative to Dempsey to be fair.
     
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    #9
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wlad earned his spot for me over what he has done the last five years or so. I just wouldn't know who ducked who vis-a-vis Lennox.

    And by the time Wlad became champ, I think Holyfield was really washed up. Perhaps others disagree.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #10
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with any of that, i'm just saying that based upon your #1 criteria Wladamir's inclusion is questionable. He isn't tested at the highest level, and that is a fact, regardless of politics or blood ties.
     
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 12, 2011
    #11
  12. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay, but I really can't blame him for not fighting his brother. This is a unique situation and I personally give both of them a pass on that one.

    Have brothers ever met in the ring?

    As for Lennox, well he's been gone for 8 years. That is quite a while by historical boxing standards and during that time Wlad has pretty much cleaned out the division except, of course, for Vitali.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011
    #12
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That brings us to another point.

    If Cribb is on the list, then why not Pearce, Belcher or indeed some of the later LPR fighters such as Mace?
     
    janitor, Sep 12, 2011
    janitor, Sep 12, 2011
    #13
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Sonny Liston

    Criteria # 1: He met and beat the best of his time: Floyd Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen, Zora Folley. All of these men in their primes.

    Criteria # 2: He dominated his top opposition. Patterson, Folley, and williams, 5-0 with 5 early knockouts. Machen a clear unanimous decision win.

    Criteria # 3: Longevity. Liston didn't have the longevity like other champions because he already cleaned out his division before he won the title.

    Criteria # 4 Historical Impact. Hmm not much...although he was mob controlled fighter who was soooo good the mob just unleashed him rather than protected him.

    I think he rates extremly high in your top 2 criterias, enough to move him well into your top 10. I consider Liston top 5 all time.
     
    SuzieQ49, Sep 12, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Sep 12, 2011
    #14
  15. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "On 10 December 1810 he fought an American, former slave Tom Molineaux, at Shenington Hollow in Oxfordshire. Cribb beat Molineaux in 35 rounds and became World champion. This victory was achieved through controversy though, as Cribb was clearly outclassed by the American, being humiliated round after round until he was easily defeated. This caused a riot to ensue and a mob soon descended on the ring swiftly attacking Molineaux and his black trainer. They broke his hand, six ribs and left him badly battered all over; only then did they restart the match. Molineaux fought on bravely only to be finally defeated eleven rounds later."

    When men were men aye, burt? They don't make them like they used to in those halycon days, lo
     
    Pachilles, Sep 12, 2011
    Pachilles, Sep 12, 2011
    #15
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