My ten greatest heavyweights

and who did he beat during his "best years"

 

surely you there have just backed up bodhi's statement unless I misinterpret?

 

the only criteria I have a problem with is the strength of an era.

it is completely unfauir to criticise a man for not being born in the right period. beating the best of your era is as good as beating the best in any era IMO.

the nature of H2H lists is growing on me but they should be kept different.

 

I absolutly agree with the era part. I don´t think there is much between all the eras, there are a few that are slightly better at the top but the huge majority of contenders of every era are of similar quality.

I will never get h2h lists. Far too much speculation for my liking.

 

Sorry Bodhi,

He didn't fight 6 fighters who were contenders in his first 10 fights.

He only fought two opponents who were contenders when he fought them. Two others became contenders later on in their careers. Six of his first ten opponents were unknowns and shot ex-greats who were no longer contenders.

Cheers

 

Those "shot" greats were still competent fighters with great experience and skill. That´s quite a challenge for someone with less than 10 fights don´t you think? Again please name me other hws who fought 6 fighters in their first ten fights which were contenders in their careers. You won´t find any.

 

There is an unconfirmed report of Jeffreis beating Martin and Childs! If that is true, is he top 5 or is he higher?

Regarding Peter Jackson, he was the reigning coloured champ. When he took to the fight, Jeffries thought he was in good shape, but he simply wasnt and as Jeffries said, he did not have a victory over the great coloured fighter Peter Jackson. But that does not really mean anything.

Regarding Griffin, there is some confusion about when Jeffries fought Griffin but Jeffries knocked him out when Jeffries was a teenager. According to Jeffries, his mum wouldnt let him fight after this, until he turned 21. It seems as if there may have been another fight later but dates are unclear. There is no doubt that Jeffries was better than Griffin though and he was not really a credible challenger at any stage of his reign. Griffin did step it up in 1901, by drawing with Jeffries victim Munroe and Kennedy. Jeffries fought Griffin at this time in a four rounder, and knocked him down three times. Griffin, Ironically went on to beat Jack Johnson in 1902 the next year.

When Martin defeated Armstrong, he announced his intention to challenge Jeffries. And it seemed he was probably one of the most credible challengers and best chances to fight jeffries.
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ge=11&page=13&page=15&page=17&page=18&index=4

Unfortunately for Martin, though, he hardly pressed is claims in the return fight with Armstrong where despite having armstrong down and in trouble twice, he was floored 6 times himself!

It is admittedly listed as an exhibition in some places but the small build up here doesnt sound like it was.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ge=18&page=16&page=17&page=18&page=19&index=2

And the fight itself certainly doesnt sound like it.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ge=18&page=16&page=17&page=18&page=19&index=4


This one here is interesting. It suggests that these two guys are easily the best two coloured fighters of the time (which i think might be correct).

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ge=18&page=16&page=17&page=18&page=19&index=8

 

they're just a bit of fun aren't they. not worth arguing over imo because they can never be rationally discussed but fun to compile non the less.

 

Cheers

 

Bodhi, I am not having any luck asking you to read my post again to get it right. So, here's what I will do.

I will ask you to please list those 6 fighters that were contenders when Jeff fought them.

Thanks in advance

 

I can agree with most of what you say, but not the part about Wlad and Lewis being "unexciting behemoths". I have been watching boxing since about 1956. I've seen a lot of snorefests on TV. And watched a lot of snorefests on YouTube. (Especially that Jack Johnson guy. He's the only fighter I know who could have turned a fight with Marciano into a snorefest, but pardon me, I digress). For some reason, however, maybe I'm nuts, I like watching the Klits and I loved watching Lewis. He was soooooo menacing. Like watching the fornicator or the ruminator, no it was the Terminator, that's it. The robotic half human that walks into a room and scopes it out with laser beams and then proceeds to kill everyone in the place. I think he's called the gubernator now, you know, Arnold what's his namer.

 

piscator,

Jackson won the title in 1896 by KOing George Godfrey. He never lost a fight after this time and fought a higher caliber of opponents than any of his black counterparts, none of whom reached his class. And while he had stopped fighting, he never officially relinquished the title by my reckoning, that makes him the reigning champion, much like Ali was when he fought Holmes. I hardly see how Armstrong could possibly be recognised ahead of Jackson because he beat Charley Strong (who himself followed this by losing to Dan Creedon).

Incidentally, is it any coincidence that that Jeffries also defeated Armstrong?

Regarding the unconfirmed Johnson fight, it happened in 1910 on the 4th of July.

 

No, No, No. Not the 1910 one where he lost. I mean the unconfirmed report of a fight where he beat Johnson.

 

If you want the bottom line, then Jeffries might well have fought Childs, but he almost certainly did not fight Martin.

 

Actually, Jackson fought Godfrey in 1888. He was great. That was long before he had to start using a cane to limp around the ring with, like when he fought Jeffries.

I think they made him relinquish his title when he had to start using the cane. Everyone thought it looked bad for boxing's image, that cane.