My tentative middleweight top 10

Objectively Hopkins also improved a lot after Jones moved up. Jones may or may not have always beaten him, but Hopkins improved loads after the Jones encounter. It's not Hopkins fault Jones was a growing man/better suited higher etc.

 

Been watching some Hopkins fights recently. Actually the Hakaar fight was the last one. European middleweight champion, and creamed by Hopkins rather easily over 8 rounds.

His defenses at middleweight often get overlooked. Echols, Vanderpool, Jackson, are easily comparable to the vast majority of Hagler's challengers, excluding Hearns, Roldan, Mugabi, etc.

I'll say one thing about Hopkins. Technically as good as any middleweight who's stepped into a ring.

Infact, I'll go one better and make a big statement. Technically the best middleweight ever.

 

Just before anyone laughs at my opinion, I don't think Hopkins is way ahead of guys like Hagler and Robinson on a technical standing.

But he's as good as flawless in all areas. His balance superb, and his upper body movement while twisting away from incoming punches and countering. As good as any fighter I have seen.

Also, If you were to have a box drawn around Hopkins' body, equal distance of 2ft either side. He would keep his punches within the boundary lines at all times. Very compact while delivering shots.

Ive never seen Hopkins deliver sloppy wide punches the way Hagler did against Leonard.

 

The thing is Robbi some of these guys might have turned into quite good fighters, and indeed champs if Hopkins wasn't around. Imagine Tito (off topic as to the standard defenses) if Hopkins didn't exist. He'd already beat the decent Joppy for a crown and concievably could have unified and made a few defenses to be the best Middleweight in the world. Imagine the bracket that would have put him in.

 

Hopkins is indeed a superb technician. Real old school, as is Toney in many ways.

 

Tito would have unified imo. He would have beat Keith Holmes in all likelihood, but as soon as Winky would have stepped up Tito would have been owned. In which case, I'm not too sure Tito would be much higher regarded than he is now, other than say by the "look how many trinkets he has he must have been awesome" fans.

 

Winky moved up in 2005. Tito beat Joppy in 2001. This would give him (if all went well lol) 4 solid years unifying then defending the title. It's got to add to his ATG standing greatly. Also, not to say it would be any different but IMO Winky hardly faced the best of Trinidad.

 

4 years is a long time, and it would have added to his legacy if he fought some decent fighters in that timeframe (were there any really decent ones around? ) but I dare say Winky would have moved up a lot sooner had he had a smaller fighter like Trinidad to contend with. I don't think, for instance he would have wasted his time rematching Mosley if he could have fought for the middleweight title against Tito in that time.

 

Speculation, but a chance of being right/Wright. Then again, Tito was a reasonable feared fighter at the time with a big reputation. Remember he was the one being hyped going into the Hopkins match and at that point Hopkins reputation was still being forged. At the time without the benefit of hindsight (Tito - Hopkins) Tito was more feared than Hopkins i'd say. Even against average fighters Tito's rep would have improved, a guy like Holmes and Foster had a weak era but they beat what they fought, in Fosters case the best of his era.

 

This is true. But great technicians almost always lose to intiuitive speedsters. That's why they don't fight them again.

 

Ok, but just imagine someone like Eddie Gregory plumped for the vacant middleweight title before leaping up to 175 (which was possible then). He fights Marv for the vacant title in 1978 and wins easily on points. Hagler become champ against Minter, like he did, and reigned until 1987- I'm sure this would affect your position of him in your all-time Top 10 middles.

 

The reason Lamotta and Robinson fought so many times was because the fights were very close,Robinosn gets in eveyones top 10 and a lot of tp 5s at the weight ,so its arguable wether Jake makes the cut,imo.

 

I never said Hopkins would definitely beat Jones at any stage. The slight odds are he wouldn't, tho i think latter Hopkins would test his durability plenty more. The X factor is the chin, was it or wasn't it always suspect. Me, i'm not sure. Hard to see barely anyone outpointing peak Jones, including Hagler and Monzon.

 

Believe it or not i was just imaging Eddie staying at 160 just yesterday. Something somebody said in the Ponty thread.

Well the bottom line is that Jones only had one more fight at 160 ever after beating Hopkins. There was no chance of a rematch there, and i am not in control of the facts regarding how close they came to fighting at 168 or whose fault it was they didn't. Head to head i give Jones the utmost respect at 160, often picking him over Hagler and Monzon, so the fact an improving Hopkins lost to potentially the greatest head to head middleweight of them all doesn't hurt him much. Hagler was still improving and refining in 78 and even then if Eddie beat him there would have been no great disaster as Eddie would have been pretty special head to head as well. If anything i would rank Eddie all the higher head to head, as i do with Jones. The only 160 i ever feel solid in picking over Jones is SRR based on style.

 

Here is my top ten:

1. Harry Greb
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Charley Burley
6. Mickey Walker
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Holman Williams
9. Dick Tiger
10. Jake LaMotta